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February 11, 2010 Who is under more pressure for a trophy:

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  • February 11, 2010 Who is under more pressure for a trophy:

    February 11, 2010

    Who is under more pressure for a trophy: Wenger or Benitez?



    Frank Praverman

    Dust is beginning to accumulate in the trophy cabinets at the Emirates Stadium and at Anfield. Walk into the hallowed corridors of these fine clubs and you can hear the faint bong of a distant bell. A tumbleweed blows through. A sullen dog barks somewhere miles away.

    You get the picture: success has avoided Arsene Wenger and Rafael Benitez for too many years now.

    Liverpool's last trophy came with their FA Cup victory over West Ham in 2006; Arsenal picked up the same trophy the year before and nothing since.

    Last night's 1-0 victory for Arsenal over Liverpool did little to alter the Premier League table. Pressure has been mounting on both managers all season. The biggest criticism laid at Wenger's door is his adamant determination to play pretty football, despite his side crying out for a Plan B (which most believe is simply buying a big, durable striker).

    Benitez's problems cut deeper, due to the boardroom squabbles and his questionable achievements in the transfer market over recent seasons.

    Both managers have been openly backed to the hilt by their respective owners: it is ridiculous to suggest that either are nearing the exit door, we hear. But this is never the case in football.

    So who needs a trophy more? Wenger, to prove his footballing theories correct, or Benitez, to stop the growing clamour for his head?

    IN ARSENAL, LIVERPOOL, THE DEBATE | PERMALINK

    Comments

    First.

    Very simple answer; Wenger. He's tried to revolutionise the overall approach to football and if he doesn't win a trophy soon then it's easier to argue he was wrong than to suggest he's the genius he probably deserves to go down in football history as.

    Benitez on the other hand hasn't tried to do anything extraordinary, he's basically been constrained but typically his <10mio signings haven't been good enough.

    POSTED BY: MINTY | 11 FEB 2010 08:47:17

    I think one of the points most people are missing is that the Arsenal Team has never dropped out of the big four, with a team much younger and much cheaper than any of its rival.

    With Liverpool out of the equation one needs to note that Man UTD has peaked with Ronaldo two years ago, while Chelsea is peaking now.

    Those 2 teams are meant to decline for the upcoming 2 - 3 years (Chelsea due to an aging team and Manchester due to a lack of strong youngster).

    In the same time as good as they are none of the Arsenal player is near to his peak yet. Fabregas still has 2 - 3 years of progression, and is already among the top players in the league. The same can be said of Nasri, Sagna, Walcott or Van Persie.

    They may not win the title this year (though it is still possible), but surely in the near future, and I suspect that once they win their first one, that will be the start of a long serie

    POSTED BY: SAMUEL | 11 FEB 2010 09:13:52

    Benitez for sure.
    Wenger will survive as long as his major players-fabregas, van persie and so on, stay at the club. If i remeber, fabregas publicy stated that he would consider leaving arsenal in wenger left

    POSTED BY: ARJUNA KANKIPATI | 11 FEB 2010 09:19:33

    There is a clamour in certain sections about Wenger leaving but its a minority. You see, with Arsene Wenger its important to look at the bigger picture. Without Wenger, there would be no Emirates Stadium, no state-of-the-art training facility, no world-class youth academy, Arsenal would not have won 2 doubles, an unbeaten premiership and English football would have lost out on a considerable influence in the game. Thats not to exhonourate him of any responsibility for failure to win something since, but this subject has been raised because we lost 2 games against Man Utd and Chelsea which is knee-jerk to say the least because we've played well all season.
    As for Benítez, the question has to be, could anyone do better with the tools he has? Probably not, although Benítez has exacerbated his situation with some poor buys and some misjudged sales. Gillet and Hicks are undermining him in the transfer market (as displayed by the fact that Liverpool have, according to reports, gone from favourites to losers in the race for Marouane Chamakh).

    Both would love trophies, but if trophies don't come this year, the mitigating circumstances should keep both in their jobs. Unless of course they quit, which is unlikely.

    If I had to pick, I'd say Benítez, because he's spent more money and, as influetial as he has been at Liverpool, he hasn't had anywhere near the impact on the club that Wenger has had at Arsenal.

    POSTED BY: SAM BOULTON | 11 FEB 2010 09:41:31

    Wenger's philosophy is being brought into question, certainly, but he has a number of things going for him. His team play some fantastic football, with some fabulous players, he has been prudent in the transfer market, and Arsenal, as a club, are still reasonably solvent. The only debt they have is a fabulous new stadium, which they are paying off very quickly, and is set to become an asset very soon.

    Benitez, is being questioned more aggressively. His team isn't neccesarily a thing of beauty and he's not been that prudent in the market with some of his buys. Gerrard and Torres aside, there are question marks over a number of players, particulaurly those who have cost money and have failed to show, what some deem to be, sufficient technique. Aquilani is a good player, but is yet to shine properly, while Babbel is not delivering in accordance to his talent. There have been others who have delivered only mediocrity such as Aurelio, Deggen, Insua, Skrtel a well as the buying, and releasing, of Morientes, Keane, Crouch and Bellamy. The clubs owners are at loggerheads, they are knee deep in debt that has been placed against the club by unscrupulous owners, and it's not as if they have a nice new ground - on the contrary they're crying out for one.

    Wengers saving grace is that his side is packed with talent, at minimal cost. Benitez' is neither pretty, nor cheap.

    POSTED BY: HARRYB | 11 FEB 2010 09:53:29

    Need to look at the stakeholders:

    Wenger:

    1. Board
    Will be happy if Arsenal finish in top 4 on assumption that team is maturing, debt is being paid down and building for long term with a win expected 2-3 years time. Anything before then is gravy.

    2. Fans
    Want something now but in general are being educated to accept that with the squads that Chelsea and ManU have that winning the league is not possible in the short term. In general understand that PL and CL are the priorites. In general are accepting that squad is being built and that it will take another 2-3 years to compete. Happy with the style of football and a feeling that we are building something.

    Benitez

    This year is a set back. This is normal after a push for title year. Happened to Arsenal also. It especially happens when key personnel leave eg Hleb Flamini, Alonso.

    There is less a feeling that they are building a capable squad and less a feeling that the football is good.

    So...I believe that both are OK and will stay but that Benitez is under more pressure.

    POSTED BY: RAY31 | 11 FEB 2010 09:58:21

    Logically, Benitez - because of the money he has spent.

    Wenger has spent a fraction, but is a victim of his own success. He would have been praised for that by the media, like Martin O'Niel is at Villa, if he was British and if he had not been so successful earlier.

    Wenger is under pressure because his teams, through their style of football promise so much, and it is doubly frustrating when they do not meet that promise.

    POSTED BY: DANNER | 11 FEB 2010 10:04:02

    Hopefully Benitez. Arsenal are a lovely team who are well worth the money there season ticket holders pay for the entertainment they get. On the other hand I really dont understand what goes through Benitez's head sometimes. I'd say Insua is one of the worst players in the whole league, he makes everyone who plays right wing against us look like Garrincha's clone. Aurelio on the other hand had a good year last year and is top class going forward, why doesnt he start him? Low and behold for Arsenal's goal last night Insua was sucked way out of position! We played 2 midlfielders who have scored once between them all year and would get a noseblead if they passed a ball forward, we played a right winger with no touch, vision, pace or skill, we played the 2nd best international team in the worlds starting right winger on the left wing and stuck up front a lad who deosnt score, has no pace, can't head and cant hold the ball up. WTF. From our squad of 16 last night 11 players could have been put out who would have made a decent fist of Arsenal in their current state, he just chose not to bother. I'm sick of not wanting to watch us. We might have gone on a mini winning run before last night but they were all horrible wins on the back of horrible scratchy goals. It really doesnt say much for the quality of the Premier League that we are still 4th, best league in the world, it doesnt matter how many times Richard Keys says it, it isnt true!
    POSTED BY: RICHARD S | 11 FEB 2010 10:44:28

    Both teams have the youngest and second-youngest average ages in the league (according to Paul Tomkins, anyway - be buggered if I'm going to do the research) and are occupying 3rd and 4th in the league table and likely remain in the top 4 come May. Chelsea and United, on the other hand, have to make decisions regarding a few of their senior players and whether or not their younger players are good enough to replace them in the next 2-3 years.

    I dont think it's a case of Rafa and Wenger being under pressure. Their fans know the major financial constraints they're working under, and a top 4 finish for both is the only goal. Both need to make a couple of big signings in the Summer (neither probably will) to compete for the title next year but Arsenal and Liverpool's long-term prospects are much better than the media and their anxious fans think.

    POSTED BY: JIM | 11 FEB 2010 11:02:35

    Neither of them are going to get the sack.
    Benitez signed a new contract last summer and Liverpool will have to pay him about 13m in compensation if they sack him. which they aren't going to do unless they get relegated (and certainly not if they stay top 4)

    Wenger has been at Arsenal so long he's about as sackable as Fergie regardless of whether he wins anything or not.

    POSTED BY: SIMON | 11 FEB 2010 11:21:28

    Who needs a trophy more?
    I'd say Benitez. His side play boring overly defensive football. Most of his buys are terrible and yet he gets rid of decent players ie keane , crouch, bellamy etc.
    Just cuz he fluked a champions league win doesnt make him a god. He has taken liverpool a step back. The only reason he wont get the sack is that Liverpool supporters (admirably) stick by the manager through thick and thin.
    Wenger on the other hand has doen a fantastic job and revolutionised arsenal. He made them a top 4 certainty whilst losing top players and working under tight budget.
    Yes he needs to stop being so stubborn and buy a few players in the summer, we all know that and im sure wenger does too. A good burly forward, a harman in midfield and prob a defender should cover it.
    Gives them a toughness and a "plan B". They arent that far off the top two and this could easily push them over.

    I'd also like to point out that it is very difficult for them both as they are competing with 2 of europes top 4.

    POSTED BY: PAUL | 11 FEB 2010 11:41:14

    No one is really under pressure. Its Frank Pravermann who is under pressure in his job as a football journalist to stimulate a non-existent debate. The fans know it and Rafa and Wenger know what they are doing. The trophies will inevitably come if their clubs stick with them and their philosophy. Both of them are good, honest and prudent men who love their respective clubs. They just need to be persisted with and I 'guarantee' a trophy in the next 1-2 years.

    POSTED BY: SUDHANSHU | 11 FEB 2010 12:03:59

    its not really a close run thing as to who is under most pressure to win a trophy. Benitez is safe because liverpool cannot afford to sack him. If there was new money at Anfield then he would be under greater pressure. Arsene Wenger, on the other hand, is in control of his destiny. The recent lack of success will affect the view people take about his career. Otherwise he will leave when he wants to.

    POSTED BY: ADRIAN | 11 FEB 2010 12:08:08

    I dont think winning trophies is what is important, so much as being competitive. This season Arsenal are, but Liverpool aren't - ergo more pressure on Benitez. That said, I dont think there would be any real pressure on either, unless they miss out on CL - The pressure was on Benitez when it looked like they would fail this year, but has now subsided considerably.
    POSTED BY: KARL | 11 FEB 2010 12:45:33

    Benitez. Wenger is good, has given Arsenal the double and brought in a lot of very talented players.

    Benitez has won the CL once and only pushed for the league last season. His signings have been awful to say the least.

    Interesting that an earlier poster mentioned the loss of Hleb, Flamini and Alonso.

    So last season was Arsenal's setback year after they lost Hleb and Flamini - is this why Liverpool were able to push for that title spot perhaps?

    POSTED BY: JACOB BARKER | 11 FEB 2010 12:51:47

    I would say neithe, as those that inhabit the real world know that he who spends most wins in what is now known as the English Premier League. As both clubs have a spend/wage bill of 4th to 6th highest in the league the clubs really have no right to expect trophies apart from the cups & everyone knows that can be a lottery.

    The only critiscm that can be levelled at Wenger is that he has taken a team from being league champions to a team that over the past 5 years regularly finishes 4th in the league. People say this is transitional phase but how long does this take?

    Benitez has improved Liverpool from cannon fodder to genuine competitors to the big two in the past 5 years without the money peoples seem to think he has spent - he averages around £16m per season spend. People also speak about Liverpool FC being defensive but they have been topscorers in each of the past two seasons in English football! I personally can't wait to see them go offensive if they are a defensive team! They'll be going for 300 goals a season!

    So to the media I would say calm down & learn to accept the predictabilty that the EPL is or go & find another more interesting sport to follow.

    POSTED BY: JARI MAGIC | 11 FEB 2010 13:57:01

    Samuel

    I think you are looking at the best situation for Arsenal and the worst for Utd and Chelsea. Nothing stops Utd or Chelsea from bringing in new players and improving. Also there is more than a decent chance that Fabregas won't be there in 2-3 years from now.

    I can see Arsenal continuing to struggle until AW sees the light and:

    1. Buys a tough, taller forward
    2. (and) A midfield enforcer
    3. (and) World class left-back and right-back
    4. (and) A new Keeper
    5. Employs better strategies to overcome the counter attack

    POSTED BY: WAG THE DOG | 11 FEB 2010 14:12:03

    @Minty
    Are you really saying building a new stadium hasn't constrained at all?

    POSTED BY: MICHAEL | 11 FEB 2010 14:24:45

    Wenger. Simply because good Football should win
    THERE IS ONLY ONE ONANDI LOWE!

    "Good things come out of the garrisons" after his daughter won the 100m Gold For Jamaica.


    "It therefore is useless and pointless, unless it is for share malice and victimisation to arrest and charge a 92-year-old man for such a simple offence. There is nothing morally wrong with this man smoking a spliff; the only thing wrong is that it is still on the law books," said Chevannes.

  • #2
    Wenger's pressure only comes from him,the man is the most important person at Arsenal has done a fantastic job every single season on a limited budget,while Benetez have wasted millions of pounds on sub standard players and is not even as successful as Houlier.

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