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  • Debate: Is race a factor in hiring managers in the English g

    Debate: Is race a factor in hiring managers in the English game?


    Patrick Barclay, Chief Football Correspondent
    Every time John Barnes loses his job, the chorus swells: do managers who are not white get a raw deal in the English game?
    To me the answer is straightforward. Because we have no way of knowing, there is no point in asking. And I find the subject an especially irksome waste of time and energy because it does not matter if we have 92 white managers or none.
    There is nothing better in English football than the disregard for racial origin that has formed over the past quarter of a century, since bananas were thrown at Barnes.


    He is entitled to be proud of having helped to civilise the game as well as play it beautifully and, because he is also an amusing and intelligent companion, the natural impulse is to wish him well in management.
    But Barnes is not the first exceptionally gifted footballer to struggle. It is not as if equal opportunity has been denied; you have to be considerably more equal than others to start at Celtic. Having failed there, and spent a sentimental sojourn with Jamaica, he ended up with Tranmere Rovers and, while it was sad that he went so quickly, the racial element should be ignored.
    That of the 92 managers only three are now non-white — Paul Ince (Milton Keynes Dons), Keith Alexander (Macclesfield Town) and Chris Hughton (Newcastle United’s caretaker) — fills me with indifference.
    The same indifference as I should encounter on being told that non-white players were over-represented in the Premier and Football Leagues because they made up, on average, 25 per cent of squads.
    Or if someone reminded me that professional-standard players of Asian or part-Asian origin remained so close to non-existent that the name of Michael Chopra leaps out. That is an interesting subject, but not cause for concern.
    The game is a meritocracy or it is nothing. When Ruud Gullit was made Chelsea manager, attention concentrated on his personality, playing pedigree and attitude to the sexiness of football. And when Jean Tigana arrived at Fulham, few dwelt on the aspect that he was not white. Yet Andrew Cole, the former Manchester United striker, has a theory to cover that; he suspects chairmen of discriminating against English non-whites.
    No doubt in a year or two, we shall hear Cole pleading for a chance to manage and wondering why it does not come.
    I remember Herman Ouseley, the affable former chairman of the Commission for Racial Equality, telling me about the first time he attended an FA Council meeting 18 months ago: “The last time I was in a room with so many grey-haired white men was in 1988. There was a reception for Margaret Thatcher after she had laid the first brick at Canary Wharf. It was a room full of bankers, financiers and developers. There was one woman — Mrs Thatcher. And one black face — mine.”
    While it is tempting to imagine English football’s boardrooms being full of rednecks, a few things should be borne in mind. One is that most chairmen would sacrifice even the most perverted principle for success. Another is that, to their credit, they have made football one of the more inclusive areas of our society. Another is that white managers are prevalent even in the black countries that can afford them. Since Zaire and Haiti booked their places in the 1974 World Cup, a total of 21 predominantly black countries from Africa or the Caribbean have qualified for the finals and only four have had black managers (Haiti in 1974, Nigeria and South Africa in 2002 and Angola in 2006). They have tended to prefer white French or Yugoslavs in charge. Does this reflect racial prejudice or a desire to have the best man in the job?
    Once again, I’m happy to pass. I just don’t think there is any need for the English game to be beating itself up, let alone introducing American-style quotas. Whatever will be will be.
    Debate: Is race a factor in hiring managers in the English game?
    THERE IS ONLY ONE ONANDI LOWE!

    "Good things come out of the garrisons" after his daughter won the 100m Gold For Jamaica.


    "It therefore is useless and pointless, unless it is for share malice and victimisation to arrest and charge a 92-year-old man for such a simple offence. There is nothing morally wrong with this man smoking a spliff; the only thing wrong is that it is still on the law books," said Chevannes.

  • #2
    So this writer came to this conclusion after Barnes had two stabs at the apple in 12-15 years of trying. Nine months at Celtic and less than four at Tranmere. Poor Johnny I hope he has the stomach for waiting around another 10 years for another shot in the English game.

    Comment


    • #3
      The question should be asked, why was Johnny a failure at Tranmere? Do not look to Johnny as the saviour who will lead the way for black coaches.
      Winning means you're willing to go longer, work harder, and give more than anyone else - Vince Lombardi

      Comment


      • #4
        Great Player at one time

        I think we need to understand that Johnny Barnes was a wonderful players, but simple can't coach as he does not have the education with years of coaching experience to be successful at a realitive good level that is need at the international level of match play. If you can't coach in training sessions and win matches and prove you have a future in the game you can't keep your position. This is the same for most jobs out there in the world. It's not always a name that can bring about needed change to a football program. Lets remember the good things he brought into the game as a player and understand the reality of coaching in todays societies.

        Best wishes.

        Paul Banta

        Comment


        • #5
          Let's move away from John Barnes and focus on why the English game with all the accomplishments of Black players over the last 15-20 years has little or no non-whites in any position that's off the field of play. Is it because very few apply for jobs outside of playing? Are they not getting the qualifications necessary to be taken seriously or do they not possess the mindset capable of managing at the top level? Or are their applications being filed away in some dark corner never to be seen again? I would like to see some serious research that honestly answers some of these questions.

          Comment


          • #6
            That question was answered awhile ago

            Rooney rules in vital fight against racism




            Mike Tomlin, the Pittsburgh Steelers, who had been hired under the rule, led his team to victory in the Super Bowl, the second black coach to do so






            Matthew Syed Sports Journalist of the Year
            I loved watching Cyrille Regis play football. He had a marvellous ability to turn and charge in one fluid movement, a skill in abundant evidence when he swivelled past two defenders for West Bromwich Albion against Norwich City in 1982 before unleashing the ball into the back of the net from 30 yards. “A strike of sublime brilliance,” one commentator described it.
            Regis was, however, rather less successful when it came to management. After retiring as a player in 1996, he worked diligently as an assistant coach, but whenever he applied for a managerial position he failed to get past first base.
            His friend Luther Blissett, who thrilled Watford fans as a player, faced precisely the same problem. After a while, it began to feel like they were hitting their heads against a brick wall.
            “You know when you have done well in an interview,” Blissett told the BBC’s Newsnight in 2004 after 15 months of unemployment. “And then you don’t even get a letter afterwards to say that you have been rejected. It’s hard to understand.” Regis made the same point: “As a player it’s tangible. You can hear the racist chants and see the bananas on the pitch. But when you put in applications, you can’t really tell somebody’s heart.”
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            Was being passed over evidence of racism? It certainly seemed that way, given their qualifications and hard work. But neither of them could be certain and this, in itself, was deeply distressing. This is what psychologists call “attributional ambiguity”.
            It is a feeling with which John Barnes is familiar. After an unsuccessful stint as manager of Celtic, the former Liverpool winger persistently applied to lower-league English teams to kick-start his career. Again and again he was knocked back. “I have applied for four or five jobs, with the backing of former England managers, but that hasn’t got me anything,” he said at the time. “Not even an interview.”
            Eventually, after years of rejection, he took the national team job with Jamaica before taking up the vacant manager’s post at Tranmere Rovers. Last week, Barnes was sacked by the Coca-Cola League One club after only 11 league matches in charge.
            Was Barnes’s dismissal premature? Mark Lawrenson certainly thinks so. “If a club is going to slash its budget only one thing happens: the team gets worse,” the BBC pundit and a former Liverpool team-mate, said. “What’s 11 league games? It’s not even a quarter of the season and it’s certainly not long enough to make a judgment on how a manager in those circumstances is getting on.”
            Others disagree. “Results have not gone our way this season and we are at the wrong end of the table,” Peter Johnson, the chairman, said. He pointed out that Barnes won only two league games and he would doubtless also argue that if racism had been an issue, he would not have appointed Barnes in the first place.
            On the wider point, the disagreement over Barnes’s treatment highlights the subjectivity that will always exist over the hiring and firing of managers — or, for that matter, anyone else. As Regis alluded to in his Newsnight interview, it is never possible to investigate the “hidden thoughts” of those making the ultimate decisions.
            But does that represent the end of the matter? Does it mean we can ignore the question of whether blacks face barriers to employment in football in the way they once faced discrimination on the pitch? For too long the answer has been “yes”.
            The lack of a prosecution of a club on equal opportunity grounds was taken by many as proof that no serious problem existed. But the complacency of that stance can be seen by widening the perspective. With Barnes gone there are now only two black men among the 72 managers in the Football League (and none in the Premier League), and only one black chief executive (Jason Rockett, of Sheffield United). Given that blacks constitute about 25 per cent of the players, this is as close to a proof of a culture of racism as it is possible to get.
            Sure, it is not the kind of proof required by a court of law — which would need something like a hidden tape with a chairman saying, “I am never going to hire a n****r” — but it is proof all the same.
            Indeed, it is a more powerful kind of proof, demonstrating to any statistically literate person that the problem has seeped across the game, permeated attitudes and taken root. To use the parlance of the Macpherson report, racism in football is institutionalised.
            Does this imply that football chairmen are riddled with redneck prejudice? No, it does not. Racial biases tend to exist at a much deeper psychological level; so deep, in fact, that many of us are all too often unaware of them (which is often a key part of the problem).
            If this sounds dubious, I suggest you take the Harvard Implicit Association Test (IAT). This measures the role our unconscious associations play in our beliefs and behaviour. I took it online for the third time yesterday and was again horrified at the way my subliminal biases skewed my answers in ways I scarcely believed possible but was unable to resist. I rated as having a “strong automatic preference for European Americans compared to African Americans”.
            Racism, you see, exists on two, independent levels. First, we have our conscious attitudes, the things we choose to believe and the values we endorse. But the IAT measures our racial attitudes on an unconscious level: the immediate, automatic associations that tumble out before we have even had a chance to think. These biases are a powerful predictor of behaviour and unlock the mystery of why black managers continue to be passed over in modern football.
            As Barnes put it with remarkable perceptiveness: “When we are talking about the dynamics of being a black football manager, it is often about what is going on at a subconscious level . . . The stereotype of a black man is that he is a good athlete, so we should be able to run fast, box, sprint, play football. But can we think? That is the hardest barrier to overcome.” And if that barrier exists for Barnes, how much more so for the dozens of aspiring black managers who never played top-tier football but who have so much to offer the game?
            How, then, to change attitudes? How to obliterate stereotypes that have dogged football for so long? Fortunately, there is a solution that can be wielded quickly and has a proven track record of success.
            In 2003, the NFL — faced with fierce criticism over the lack of black coaches — introduced the Rooney Rule. Named after the chairman of the league’s diversity committee, the rule (agreed with the 32 franchise owners) mandated that every NFL team interview at least one minority candidate when the position of head coach became vacant.
            The results have been remarkable, not least because the policy has teeth — in 2003, the NFL fined the Detroit Lions $200,000 (now about £125,000) for failing to interview minority candidates. By the start of the 2006 season the number of black head coaches had shot up from 6 per cent to 22 per cent and in February Mike Tomlin, of the Pittsburgh Steelers, who had been hired under the rule, led his team to victory in the Super Bowl, the second black coach to achieve that accolade.
            “The Rooney Rule’s effectiveness lies in its potential to deconstruct hidden biases,” Brian Collins, a lawyer, said in the New York University Law Review. “A decision-maker harbouring unconscious bias is forced to confront his own partiality by meeting face-to-face with a candidate he might never have previously considered.”
            Yesterday, asked about the potential for a Rooney Rule in football, a spokesman on equality issues for the FA said: “What’s that? I have never heard of it.”
            With such a catastrophic lack of awareness from the governing body, is it any wonder that English football continues to languish in the dark ages? A Rooney Rule is not merely overdue; it is the acid test of the sport’s willingness to confront its institutionalised racism.
            THERE IS ONLY ONE ONANDI LOWE!

            "Good things come out of the garrisons" after his daughter won the 100m Gold For Jamaica.


            "It therefore is useless and pointless, unless it is for share malice and victimisation to arrest and charge a 92-year-old man for such a simple offence. There is nothing morally wrong with this man smoking a spliff; the only thing wrong is that it is still on the law books," said Chevannes.

            Comment


            • #7
              of course it is is to be in denial...black managers are now where black players were 30 years ago. true the abundance of black players especiallyu black english players tells us that a turn has been made where players are concerned.

              forget ye not, the black quarterback controversy (until doug williams) nor the black head coach until tony dungy .... in both cases the indivudal proved that not only are they qualified, but they have also lifted the superbowl.

              the writer is not naive, however, he doesn't make the thing go away by willing it away! the fact that it is raised and has been around for so long and in my mind, not disproved, speaks for itself.

              having said that, john barnes is not the posterboy for a good coach.

              how he has handled his business as a td of jamaica, tells me that he is too easily distracted.

              Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving; it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe. Thomas Paine

              Comment


              • #8
                Football is business first. Football is all about winning.

                There would be no need for Barnes to get fired if he was producing wins.

                I am following the English Championship very closely this year. The major resaon is Newcastle. Chris Haughton has sat shot-gun to a series of name brand managers at Spurs and now at Newcastle. He has been tagged 'caretaker' throughout his career.

                Newcastle will be promoted to the EPL. It's Chris Haughton who is 'caretaker' manager. He is doing a brilliant job. Newcastle is tied with West Brom with 24 points.

                If (and when) Newcastle gets promoted--I am expecting Haughton to be fully in charge as manager of Newcastle. If not, the attached article debating race as a factor will be fully justified.
                The only time TRUTH will hurt you...is if you ignore it long enough

                HL

                Comment


                • #9
                  Talking about performance and winning.

                  Just came across this:
                  Chris Hughton Offered Newcastle United Manager's Job

                  The caretaker could be taking over permanently...

                  Oct 19, 2009 6:19:14 PM


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                  Chris Hughton and Martin Jol - Tottenham Hotspur
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                  Newcastle United caretaker manager Chris Hughton is in talks with the Magpies about becoming manager on a permanent basis.

                  The Toon have made a strong start to life in the Championship after last season's relegation, and it is believed that current owner Mike Ashley wants to reward Hughton for his fine work in testing circumstances.

                  "I am honoured to be offered the job, we are still in negotiations, it is something we hope will get resolved," Hughton told The Newcastle Chronicle. "I've always felt that the manager's situation was an issue, but not the most important one.
                  "Getting results has been the most important thing.
                  "Once we have got Scunthorpe and Doncaster out of the way, we will have discussions with Derek Llambias.
                  "It will involve moving from caretaker to manager on a full-time basis.
                  "They have indicated to me that they want to turn it from a temporary role to a permanant one."
                  Zack Wilson, Goal.com UK
                  The only time TRUTH will hurt you...is if you ignore it long enough

                  HL

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Gents, this is an argument that is going to be going on for some time. However, the truth of it is that football is indeed a business and businesses act in their own self interest. If a manager were blue, purple, orange or crimson, it wouldn't matter if they are producing. In barnes's case, he has had far more opportunity than most white managers. He can't complain. Others however, should be careful not to play the race card too quickly - again, for every black manager wannabe out there, there are 10 white ones.
                    "H.L & Brick .....mi deh pan di wagon (Man City)" - X_____ http://www.reggaeboyzsc.com/forum1/showthread.php?p=378365&highlight=City+Liverpool#p ost378365

                    X DESCRIBES HIMSELF - Stop masquerading as if you have the clubs interest at heart, you are a fraud, always was and always will be in any and every thing that you present...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      this guy has no clue. If one is percieve of not being able to deliver then one is not given a chance when they struggle. This is not just epl or football but even 5 years ago in the nfl and maybe 10 years in the nfl. We still see it.. Sam Mitchell got fired in toronto while lawerence Frank whom has done nothing stays in Jersey..

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        paul..we must be mindful of crying wolf, but we must not be unmindful of the environment...football is a business and has been a business for a long time, did that prevent the bias against black players 25-30 years ago?

                        the NFL is also big business and we saw the same thing...

                        let us not be foolish in our attempt to be accepted as having arrived or not being "one of them". people sacrcficed their lives in america in order to promote racial equality, it is better now than it was, is the struggle over?

                        Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving; it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe. Thomas Paine

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Gamma View Post
                          paul..we must be mindful of crying wolf, but we must not be unmindful of the environment...football is a business and has been a business for a long time, did that prevent the bias against black players 25-30 years ago?

                          the NFL is also big business and we saw the same thing...

                          let us not be foolish in our attempt to be accepted as having arrived or not being "one of them". people sacrcficed their lives in america in order to promote racial equality, it is better now than it was, is the struggle over?
                          There you are!! How is Dionne? Gamma, I agree with all that you are saying, however, this is a delicate issue. I submit that these things work themselves out with success as it did for black athletes on the field. We have to ask ourselves what is the appropriate ratio? And if there is such a thing, then we would then have to ask is it "fair" to have 70% of the players in the NFL be black when blacks are only 12% of the population?

                          That said, I realise that what we ARE REALLY asking for is greater ACCESS to management opportunities and that the 70% are on the field because of merit. In the "olden days", the black player never even got a chance. So if this is repeating itself with management positions, there then is a problem, but I don't know how we could prove this. Unless we can, we have to be careful.

                          In my opinion we have to be diplomatic and keep our eyes wide open and call it as we see it. We should demand explanations where opportunities are denied us, but be careful not to put our accomplishments in a tainted light - bigging up ourselves when we don't deserve it (e.g. Barnes is hardly the poster child for black management success).

                          As it was with players on the field, success in the management ranks will come slowly, but will only be afforded us with tangible results. Part of the problem here is that one could argue that the disproportionate representation of blacks in sport is attributable to genetic physical differences, I think that by contrast, people across races are mentally on par, so it is likely that given equal access, you will see management be more reflective of the distribution of races in society generally.

                          Note also that players are not necessarily managers. Many of the current crop of managers never played the game, including Mourinho, Wenger, Houllier and Rafa; so making an extrapolation from representation on the field to management is not necessarily congruent.

                          Give my love to yu woman. At least she look better than that fowl excuse for a female that TK dealin' wid. You want me fi get you an autograph from Rihanna?
                          "H.L & Brick .....mi deh pan di wagon (Man City)" - X_____ http://www.reggaeboyzsc.com/forum1/showthread.php?p=378365&highlight=City+Liverpool#p ost378365

                          X DESCRIBES HIMSELF - Stop masquerading as if you have the clubs interest at heart, you are a fraud, always was and always will be in any and every thing that you present...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            wait deh..a parro yuh wa'an mi get parro? will pass on MOST of you regards!

                            Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving; it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe. Thomas Paine

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Gamma View Post
                              wait deh..a parro yuh wa'an mi get parro? will pass on MOST of you regards!
                              Gamma at your age the only thing you will pass is kidney stones. Hol' yu corna' gramps! - T.K.
                              No need to thank me forumites.

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