Okay let's define it

[T.K.]

What others in the region think isn't important. If we cannot win this watered down competition, we might as well tek up curling.

Curling a carry de swing yes.

Actually I think it is really telling that we aren't even talked about as one of the challengers for the title. After failing to make the hex the last two qualifying cycles and not making it to the last Gold Cup we are not even an afterthought.

Watered down or not we have no basis in reality to say that we should win this tournament. Nothing in the last ten years has suggested that we are capable of winning the Gold Cup.

I will say however, in the absence of any evidence, I think we have a punchers chance this time around. I think the unique circumstances of this tournament gives us our best shot ever to challenge for the title.

Outside of that I can't say that we "should" win anything. The truth is if anything, based on our past history, we should lose. - T.K.

[Jangle]

Plus the recently concluded Confed Cup shows that football nuh play pon paper. Nothing is given to anybody.

[Lazie]

Plus the recently concluded Confed Cup shows that football nuh play pon paper. Nothing is given to anybody.

I'm sorry, wasn't aware I implied any such thing. I'm starting to wonder if there are fans here or just a set of gladis. All year round ppl run me down bout how good the team is, man and man mek one bag a excuse fi the continued failure (not referring to you T.K .... dem know demselves) and now the measurement for success is what? Nobody nuh have the balls fi raise the bar? Respect is overrated. Win the effing trophy. Winners earn their deserved respect.

[T.K.]

I'm sorry, wasn't aware I implied any such thing. I'm starting to wonder if there are fans here or just a set of gladis. All year round ppl run me down bout how good the team is, man and man mek one bag a excuse fi the continued failure (not referring to you T.K .... dem know demselves) and now the measurement for success is what? Nobody nuh have the balls fi raise the bar? Respect is overrated. Win the effing trophy. Winners earn their deserved respect.

Lol...you know Lazie I think Prince Buster made a song about you back in the day because you are certainly a hard man fe dead.

Listen I thought I raised the bar. Beat USA, make the finals or win the Gold Cup.....those are three rungs we have never reached. If we reach one of them then the bar has been raised. - T.K.

[Jangle]

Nice counter argument...... Lazie......?

[Jawge]

Well said Lazie, I don't even have to go further in
the thread. I'm tired of the medicore mindset.

What if Brasil was satisfied with just reaching the coned final? What if the mentally gave up like Spain (look at Pique literally giving up after the second goal from USA)? No they knew the had to bring back that trophy to Brasil. They used their understanding of the science of the game and ball to achieve desired results (with mental fortitude and an iclination for HIGH standards).

[Jangle]

"They used their understanding of the science of the game and ball to achieve desired results"

But Jamaica has not reached that level of understanding of the game yet.

"(with mental fortitude and an iclination for HIGH standards)."

What if we play with this mental fortitude and heart but still come up short, would they be considered failures still?

[Assasin]

So wait because Manu didn't win the champions league they have no respect?

The fact is there can only be one winner and in football sometimes it is more than been the best team but a basic ref decision can make the difference or one bad game so to say Jamaica has to win or nothing else is not very wise in my opinion.

[Jawge]

quote: "the beatings will continue until morale has
improved".

In 2006 when Brasil got knocked out in the quarters, were the people of Brasil happy? When Brasil lost in the final of 98 , were the people of Brasil happy? What if the Brasilians were to say ah it's Europe and that's a tough place to win the WC, at least we played in the finals with France.

The Prof. gave us the blue print to the science of the game and ball. Ja should now lay this question at the feet of the NPL.

Does any NPL team have tryouts? Does any NPL team scout for talent outside of the high school leagues? Do they scout the small tournaments or put out a listening ear for who is the king of scrimmage or street ball?
How was R9 found?

[Lazie]

So wait because Manu didn't win the champions league they have no respect?

The fact is there can only be one winner and in football sometimes it is more than been the best team but a basic ref decision can make the difference or one bad game so to say Jamaica has to win or nothing else is not very wise in my opinion.

Sass, you always bring up Manu when yuh have some difficulty making a point. Manchester United is a known winner, (better yuh did say Liverpool.) We haven't won anything other than the Caribbean Cup .. its time to raise the bar for our national team.

[Assasin]

I bring up Manu because you have one standard fi them and all these other countries but one for Jamaica.

there was a time when Manu wasn't a winner.

[Lazie]

I bring up Manu because you have one standard fi them and all these other countries but one for Jamaica.

there was a time when Manu wasn't a winner.

Sass, do, leave the Empire out of this cause the greatness a cloud yuh judgement. The Empire wasn't always a winner, but they've always gone to the drawing board and corrected it. Futhermore, when I talk people don't associate me with Manu, they immediately ask if I'm Jamaican. Suh get back on topic.

Next month we celebrating 47 years on independence. Other than being Caribbean champs what else have we won? You're one of that that love run mi down bout how good the team is and abundance of talent ray ray ... suh how come yuh nuh man enough fi say the measurement of success is winning the Gold Cup? Gwaan look respect mi friend ... until we start doing something on the int'l scene, Zeppo will always have ammo.

[Jangle]

"quote: "the beatings will continue until morale has
improved".

In 2006 when Brasil got knocked out in the quarters, were the people of Brasil happy? When Brasil lost in the final of 98 , were the people of Brasil happy? What if the Brasilians were to say ah it's Europe and that's a tough place to win the WC, at least the played in the finals with France."



I agree with these points that you put forward 100%, but unfortunately, they cannot be applied to Jamaica because of this:

"The Prof. gave us the blue print to the science of the game and ball. Ja should now lay this question at the feet of the NPL.

Does any NPL team have tryouts? Does any NPL team scout for talent outside of the high school leagues? Do they scout the small tournaments or put out a listening ear for who is the king of scrimmage or street ball?
How was R9 found?"

I was one who opposed your argument last year about playing better quality teams like Mexico over the weaker Caribbean teams. I understand that we must set goals in order to improve, but sometimes, I think we as fans tend to set the bar too high. Without the proper infrastructure in place, a decent local league for one, we have overachieved by qualifying for a WC. That has led meny to believe that we had arrived or even close enough to the other top teams in CONCACAF. Last year, after we had done the rounds of playing those small teams, you wanted us to jump to the bigger teams when we struggled to beat those same small teams. There were so many issues that the Prof needed to work out that playing better teams, in my opinion, would have done us more harm than good. The team started to gell just prior to the start of the qualifying rounds. Simoes used the wrong tactics in those 3 early games, but by the time Tappa got the team, they were a unit then. Tappa succeeded by changing tactics and tweaking the squad. Right now, the team is on an upward trend, but all would not be lost if we don't win the Gold Cup. However, anything less than reaching the finals, can be viewed as a minor failure if we don't play with heart, intelligence and competitiveness.

[Jawge]

What would be the point of making it to the finals? To
give the trophy to the opponent? No you must have the desire to win it all. Look at the movie top gun ; There is a song in it that says " there is no ponts for second best". This is how the US get to be top dog in military and have the elite of the elite protecting the nation. What if they said "ah second is just as good"

If you want to be number one as Brasil, Germany, Italy and Arg. You have to adopt the above mentality.

[Jangle]

Let's leave it at this: let's take it one match at a time. Of course, if we get to the finals, then our sole objective must be to win the match, however, if we fail, then overall we need to examine our overall performance throughout the tournament. Did we get to the finals by chance; did we win the cup on a buckup goal; did we lose on a buckup goal; did we dominate our opponents; these are just a few of the things that we would have to analyse after the tournament to gauge where we are. If we stumble our way to the title, it would look good on our record, but does that mean we can start thinking about challenging the USA for that number 1 spot? Does that mean we can start expecting future WC qualifications without the drama? Nothing is wrong with adopting a winning mentality but without the base, it would like walking around with our heads in the cloud.