Trinidad Express: Americans have head start

[Zeppo]

Ceratinly there are pickup games being played by immigrant kids in the cities...but that is just it..they are the immigrant kids that have not been given a place in our youth football. And to be fair..if the suburban people are running these clubs..often times they do not want these kids in the mix...which to me is very short sighted and racist. They will say they want "them" to play...but they will make these kids jump thru hoops just to be on the team. It is sickening really and have seen it first hand many times over the years.

This is definitely a problem, but at least U.S. Soccer has recognized this in recent years and has begun focusing their attention on bringing more minorities into the game. Especially Latinos (just look at the current U-17 coach). That's a big step in the right direction.

You are correct as well in terms of the youth coaching being poor...but..at the end of the day...the bigger problem is that these kids do not play on their own in pick up games..and have older players to emmulate. Furthermore they do not have the hunger..the passion. How can you have these things when you are growiing up in Suburbia..and everything is handed to you on a silver platter? It is not possible. They have no passion for anything unless it is playig a cimputer game. The point is..the vast majority of the US's players come from this group of people and environment.

Sorry, but I get rather irritated by the constant moaning about the suburban influence on the game. It smacks of class warfare and white guilt.

It's not obligatory to grow up poor in order to have hunger and passion for the game. Look at the Italian team that just hoisted the World Cup. Few, if any, came up through the ghetto. In fact, most of them grew up with comfortable middle-class lifestyles.

The growth of the game in the U.S. suburbs is hugely responsible for our progress over the last 20 years. And some of our suburban-raised players (Caligiuri, Wynalda, McBride, Donovan, etc.) have scored some of the most important goals in our country's history.

Would it be better to have more players from other races, ethnic groups and social classes brought into the fold? Unquestionably. But why so much griping about something that has helped us make so much progress?

And ask yourself this question: Where would the sport be in the U.S. today if it hadn't taken hold in the suburbs as it did? Where would you see it being played?

It would only exist in small enclaves of immigrant groups in big cities. That's where. Just like it was up until the 70s. No World Cup on TV and no professional league.

No thanks.

[Don1]

This is definitely a problem, but at least U.S. Soccer has recognized this in recent years and has begun focusing their attention on bringing more minorities into the game. Especially Latinos (just look at the current U-17 coach). That's a big step in the right direction.

Sorry, but I get rather irritated by the constant moaning about the suburban influence on the game. It smacks of class warfare and white guilt.

It's not obligatory to grow up poor in order to have hunger and passion for the game. Look at the Italian team that just hoisted the World Cup. Few, if any, came up through the ghetto. In fact, most of them grew up with comfortable middle-class lifestyles.

The growth of the game in the U.S. suburbs is hugely responsible for our progress over the last 20 years. And some of our suburban-raised players (Caligiuri, Wynalda, McBride, Donovan, etc.) have scored some of the most important goals in our country's history.

Would it be better to have more players from other races, ethnic groups and social classes brought into the fold? Unquestionably. But why so much griping about something that has helped us make so much progress?

And ask yourself this question: Where would the sport be in the U.S. today if it hadn't taken hold in the suburbs as it did? Where would you see it being played?



It would only exist in small enclaves of immigrant groups in big cities. That's where. Just like it was up until the 70s. No World Cup on TV and no professional league.

No thanks.

Let suburbia rule!

US mediocrity forever!

[Warlord]

What utter rubbish!

Thankfully I don't have the time nor any inclination to address your garbage.

When someone is impervious to logic.... leave them be.

Selah

you got called out and cant defend it.

[Bill Moravek]

Again...I understand fully the importance of the suburban familys from the past...hell..I was one of them. However, I recognise what it will take for us to get to the next level...plain and simple. It has nothing to do with guilt or anything else. But trust me...trust me....I have been on the front lines on the youth level as well and the upper levels..and I have seen first hand what we are speaking about. How many of these players that you mentioned are even recognised as top professionals outside of the US...NOT WORLD CLASS..but just top class professionals outside the US...how many??? None...Brad Friedel?? That speaks volumes....why is it our national teams are so void of people of colour? Look at the Women's National Teams...I believe the 17's were all white girls with bonde hair with the little pony tails...again..that speaks volumes..because again..look who is running these programs primarily. So are you saying that these bloody administrators are not blind to color and truly are picking the best possible players and athletes..and encourage more diversity?? No way man..

Sure..we have come a long way..but are we going to look to see what can get us to be a top footballing country..or just keep saying we are there...and what we are doing is working??

The analogy I like to use in footballing terms..is Norway in the 1998 world cup. Norway blew thru the qualifying rounds..with their long ball diagonal balls from back..and huge strikers. But once they got to the World Cup...and the better quality of teams..they failed miserably. So the point is this...sure..we can continue to get to the world cup with what we are doing..no doubt..and it has ben a massive improvement from the 80's and even 90's...but are we merely happy with qualifying..or do we want to win the world cup? We can get there with what we have been doing..but we will NOT win a world cup..or even get close..going the same route..no way. (and for the record..I know that many teams progress in the world cup itself with a little luck..and that is needed in any sport to win a championship. And that is exactly what 2002 was. Had South Korea not got the last goal against Italy..who were down to 9 men...had they not gotten that goal in literally the last seconds of the game...we would not have even been in the second round..so we really need to be proud of the accomplishment of 2002..but also keep it in perspective.)

[Assasin]

Make them gwaan talk, as for the caribbean parents them, most of them don't spend anytime with their kids and serving in clubs, organizing, giving their time for free. No they rather go and play beer ball themselves.

It is not all about Race or suburbs. The same reason why we don't have soccer teams is the same reasons our children are failing in school. They don't get the support and attention they need. Again most black parents especially men have no time to watch their kids, spend time and develop their kids and make them express their talent, we rather play dominoes and hang out(As you did with your son).

In Jamaica is the same way them behave only that you have a more supportive community to sport where you have a few people in a district who is dedicated to some form of sports.

I remember when I got scholarship for summer camps for kids to a very good camp, it was hard to find parents who even looked into it. For years I got very reduced price to another camp and I could hardly find parents to take advantage but they complain that the kids watching too much tv.

I have friends who complain that their coach know nothing about the game so I now say to them, you have played at a high level so why not get involved?

[Zeppo]

Let suburbia rule!

US mediocrity forever!

If mediocrity means consistently qualifying for the World Cup then it's not too bad, is it?

That would certainly be a dream come true for a One-World Cup Wonder like Jamaica.

[Zeppo]

why is it our national teams are so void of people of colour?

I know you are not talking about our Men's program. Because if you are then it would mean that you haven't watched one of their games in decades. Black, white, latino (even some Asian), they are all represented. Almost evenly. That goes for the youth teams as well.

No, it is not the same for the women. But did you ever ask yourself if women play the game at all in the countries of origin of many of the ethnic groups represented in the USA?

In any Latin country it is definitely a big NO (aside from Brazil). A Mexican friend once told me that the idea of women playing soccer in Mexico is laughable. An Argentine told me the same thing. Even in primarily white European countries girls simply do not play the game. The few exceptions are Germany and the Scandinavian countries.

And by the way, there have been several Asian-American girls on the U.S. team.

Sure..we have come a long way..but are we going to look to see what can get us to be a top footballing country..or just keep saying we are there...and what we are doing is working??

Who is saying "we are there"?? Please name names. I'd love to know!

The analogy I like to use in footballing terms..is Norway in the 1998 world cup. Norway blew thru the qualifying rounds..with their long ball diagonal balls from back..and huge strikers. But once they got to the World Cup...and the better quality of teams..they failed miserably.

You mean the same Norway team that beat Brazil in the finals?!

They advanced to the second round and were eliminated by Italy 1-0. Hardly a miserable failure. Especially for such a small country.

So the point is this...sure..we can continue to get to the world cup with what we are doing..no doubt..and it has ben a massive improvement from the 80's and even 90's...but are we merely happy with qualifying..or do we want to win the world cup? We can get there with what we have been doing..but we will NOT win a world cup..or even get close..going the same route..no way.

I think you fail to see the forest for the trees here. It's like rolling a boulder forward. The momentum is there, but it has to go at its own pace. It takes time.

If you're irritated that we still can't consistently challenge the big boys for the World Cup trophy then your outlook is unrealistic. You want too much too soon.

But it will come.

(and for the record..I know that many teams progress in the world cup itself with a little luck..and that is needed in any sport to win a championship. And that is exactly what 2002 was. Had South Korea not got the last goal against Italy..who were down to 9 men...had they not gotten that goal in literally the last seconds of the game...we would not have even been in the second round..so we really need to be proud of the accomplishment of 2002..but also keep it in perspective.)

I think you mean Portugal, as Italy was not in our group (someone needs to bone up on their WC history ).

You're right. But there is at least a bit of luck involved in every good World Cup run. That goes for all teams.

[Bill Moravek]

Yes..of course it was Portugal..it really doesnt matter who it was..it is what transpired that matter..

[Bill Moravek]

I am not going to discuss this any further...you have a right to your opinion fair enough but that doesn't hide the facts of what is really going on...and I try to base my opinions on personal experiences...first hand experiences and facts. And unfortunately the kind of reason and logice you are using explains alot of the naivity that other countries dislike so much about us from our politics and everything else. Everything is not so simple as you portray..and black and white. Sure there are some people of colour in the national teams..but you are completely ignoring the underying problems...and to say we some people of colour on the national teams..and pretty much everyone is represented is exactly the problem in itself. Everything is cool...no problems here in the USA...we are the best...and that is it.

[Don1]

If mediocrity means consistently qualifying for the World Cup then it's not too bad, is it?

That would certainly be a dream come true for a One-World Cup Wonder like Jamaica.

I agree that would be wonderful for Jamaica to consistently qualify for the World Cup..... but if we did that consistently Jamaicans would probably demand to win the thing.... so it would be routine and not so special after a short while.



The fact that you find it comforting to compare the US with Jamaica in a feel good moment... says volumes about the USA's underperformance in football.
A so called world superpower with such huge human and material resources... struggling as it does to be noticed in the world game and comforted by comparison with the likes of Jamaica? ....


Pathetic.

[Karl]

That is true for the suburbs, but not for the city. Pickup games are quite common there, even if the kids are in large part immigrants or sons of immigrants.

That is a big factor in moving the game forward here; getting the kids to play pickup games on their own. I recently read something where the Scottish FA was lamenting the drop in their country's youths playing unsupervised street football. In terms of hours per week, they said it was not even half of what it was in the 60s and 70s.

Anyway, you make some very good points in your post, Bill. But I think the quality of youth player is better than what you give it credit for. A bigger problem is the quality of youth coaching. By now the progress our players have made has far surpassed the the progress that our coaching has made. We have too many coaches who grew up on baseball, gridiron football, basketball, etc. without ever seeing a soccer ball in their youth, and when it comes to coaching kids they have no clue. Their intentions are good, but it's still inadequate.

And then often we lose those kids to other sports at a crucial age. In countries like Italy and Brazil, for instance, sports like basketball and volleyball are quite popular and they fare quite well internationally in those competitions. But those sports still have no where near the amount of popularity that soccer holds there. Not even close. In the USA, however, the differences in popularity between the sports at the top of the pile (between gridiron, baseball and basketball) are marginal, leaving soccer with an uphill struggle to establish itself.

Anyway, given these factors (among others) I think that we are actually overachievers. We consistently qualify for the WC and have beaten some top teams on the world stage at the same time. Just a few years ago we were only a hair away from the World Cup semi-finals! In fact, I think that is a main reason why so many people in the region (including many on this forum) detest us; because we are competitive and have gotten results at the highest levels of the game, and most of the country doesn't even care!

Progress takes time, and becoming a power doesn't happen overnight. These people who keep pointing to how much US Soccer invests in things have no perspective of time. But it will happen. When my father was growing up he had never even seen a soccer ball. For my generation it was much better, but still not great. Now the only sport that attracts more youth players in the country is basketball. All of those kids will grow up with soccer backgrounds. Sure, many of them will go onto other sports, as I stated earlier. But even retaining a small percentage of them still means millions and millions. And for many years there was no pro league to follow, no American players to idolize. Now we have a solid professional league that has been in existence for over 12 years -- and most importantly, they are setting up youth academies.

Over the last 20-25 years there is no team in the world that has made as much progress as the USA has. After a 40-year absence we qualified for the 1990 World Cup, with a team full of college kids! Four years later we were beating Colombia and losing to Brazil only 1-0. Then fast forward a few more years and we were in the quarter finals. Sure, there were a few bumps along the way. But anyone who does not see an upward trajectory is either blind or ignorant.

Our future is bright and looking better every day.

...thank you for emphasising my point. Jamaica needs to strike now, before the USA wakes up!

[Don1]

...thank you for emphasising my point. Jamaica needs to strike now, before the USA wakes up!

The USA is awake.... but their status is a distraction. We need to focus on ourselves.



What Jamaica needs is to be organized and committed..... regardless of what the USA does or does not do.

[Karl]

The USA is awake.... but their status is a distraction. We need to focus on ourselves.



What Jamaica needs is to be organized and committed..... regardless of what the USA does or does not do.

My reference to the USA coming awake was aimed at the USA adding the identifying, selecting and nuturing of her best talents. Currently it is my considered opinion that her huge network of entities and individuals are not yet at the place - (They are sleeping.) - where best talents have ready, easily accessed conduit through the various stages of development. Among other things, Zeppo's post also made that clear.

Our problem is we have not the organisation that allows our best talents to receive excellent coaching and exposure to the quality competition at the various stages of the athletes life needed. Added to the foregoing is a lack of adequate support facilities, volunteers and professionals.

Our JFF and affiliate organisations need to immediately commence developing and drawing into a working alliance the leaders and other workers that will give us well run professional football organisations. Yes, it costs money to put such 'an operation' together...but more than anything we lack the necessary professional mindset.

It should be, in our small island, fairly easy to quickly get the football organisations 'up to speed' and give our best talents fast track into what must be made into top programs...right?

[Don1]

[quote=Karl; It should be, in our small island, fairly easy to quickly get the football organisations 'up to speed' and give our best talents fast track into what must be made into top programs...right?[/quote]


Problem: Small island but..... BIG egos.