LAZY BOYZ LABEL? - Are Caribbean footballers stuck...

[Karl]

LAZY BOYZ LABEL? - Are Caribbean footballers stuck with a stigma overseas?


GORDON WILLIAMS, Contributor

( L - R ) Andy Williams, Tyrone Marshall - file
Players admit hearing about it. A few were asked directly. And at least one is sure it exists, claiming it has followed him during his career.

A stigma, labelling Caribbean footballers as lazy and undisciplined has been making the rounds of overseas professional football clubs for years, especially in North America, according to some of the game's insiders. The tag, they said, hurts players from the region, including Jamaicans, seeking contracts.

The insiders claim word has spread that some club officials believe Jamaicans and others from the Caribbean are unwilling to work hard and make sacrifices necessary to succeed, despite the record of accomplishments earned by countries and players past and present.

"It's just something that goes around, that Caribbean players are lazy," said Andy Williams, a Jamaica international midfielder who has played with six different United States Major League Soccer teams during a decade in the MLS, North America's top competition.

Williams is not the only one who claims to know about it.
"On a whole it's true to some extent," said national defender Shavar Thomas, now in his second season with Chivas USA after playing with three other MLS clubs over four years. "I've heard it."

Fellow Reggae Boy Tyrone Marshall, a 10-year MLS veteran, said he too is aware of the tag.
"I think they (clubs) underrate (Caribbean players)," explained the Toronto F.C. defender. "I don't think they give them any rating."

Closely scrutinised
A recent check showed more than a dozen Caribbean-born players on MLS rosters preparing for the 2008 season, which begins this month. Many on that list, among them five born in Jamaica, either migrated early to the U.S. with family or left the Caribbean after high school on scholarships to attend American Universities where they were closely scrutinised. But players seeking to leave directly from the Caribbean to join clubs may not have that opportunity.

"The coaches or teams don't scout in the Caribbean," said Williams. "They'd rather go to Europe or South America."

Yet some football insiders are not ready to blame the so-called stigma solely for the absence of larger numbers of Caribbean players in the MLS or other North American leagues.

I don't know," said Clyde Jureidini, general manager of Harbour View Football Club, who has negotiated with American clubs over the years. "That has not been said to me."

Jureidini believes the clubs' marketing strategy influences where they recruit. U.S. clubs target American-born players first, he offered as an example, because their fans are more easily drawn to them. From there, he added, clubs may select players who will attract particular fans in the region they are located. For example, a club like Chivas USA, which has Thomas on its roster, is likely to target Hispanic players because the club is a spin-off from a club in Mexico and located in California, which shares the Mexican border and has a huge Hispanic population.

"They tend to recruit less from the Caribbean side because the Caribbean fan base in the U.S. is smaller," Jureidini explained.

However, Williams, who was raised in Jamaica but attended school in the U.S. before turning pro, said he discovered the "lazy" tag had been pinned on him, which forced him into a career-long battle to shake it off.
"That's my stigma in this league," he said. "But every coach I've had says the opposite."

"They use the term, that Caribbean players are sometimes lazy, not motivated, too laid back," explained Marshall, who said he was approached years ago by a club official who asked about the stigma attached to a player from the region. "That's why they don't really pursue the Caribbean players."

Yet Williams and Marshall said that, based on their experiences in the MLS, the stigma is not based on fact and both backed the efforts of their colleagues from the region even if they sometimes don't pay off.

"Every Caribbean player who comes here works his tail off," Williams said, "but they (the clubs) just pick somebody else."
"Caribbean players work hard," added Marshall.

Personally affected
MLS club officials contacted for this story also denied the stigma exists, at least within their organisation. One official, who did not want to be quoted, pointed to the make-up of his club's roster past and present as proof that Caribbean players were always welcome. At least one coach flatly declared that the nationality of the player did not influence whether or not he is signed.

"I don't think as a coach you look at stigmas," said Tom Soehn, of D.C. United of the MLS. "You look to make your team better ... I think we evaluate each individual."

Some Caribbean players in the league claim they have not been personally affected by any stigma. Thomas, for example, now in his second season at Chivas USA, said he was embraced by the club, coaches and fans from day one.

"It's amazing to me, the response I get from them," he said recalling last season.

But the label that the people of the region carry a "no problem", laid back attitude on and off the field, may have already done some damage, football insiders claim. Despite saying he had no proof that Jamaican players acted "lazy" when contracted overseas, Jureidini believes the perception could exist.

Not working hard
"I am speculating that that is a mindset, that Jamaican and Caribbean players are lazy, undisciplined and aggressive," explained the Harbour View G.M., who offered a list of players, including Marshall, Wolde Harris, Fabian Taylor, Anthony McCreath and Damani Ralph who represented his club and the MLS, but were never accused of not working hard.

"In my mind that is not so."

There is also suspicion that several Caribbean-grown players, who actually made it into North American leagues, did not stay long because the clubs were not pleased with their attitude. A few seasons ago one player, who has represented his Caribbean nation, said he was criticised by an MLS coach for not playing hard, even after he showed the club that injuries to his feet prevented him from being at his best. Word also circulated that a couple Jamaicans did not show the right attitude and were not signed or re-signed by their North American clubs.

"There may have been a few bad apples which may have given (the clubs) that view and that carries weight in the league," Marshall said.
So, despite the recent success of teams from the region, for example World Cup berths for Jamaica and Trinidad and Tobago over the last decade, professional teams are more likely to look elsewhere for talent.

While the MLS offers a genuine professional option, more Caribbean players prefer to play in Europe, particularly Great Britain. The pay and competition is generally better there and more clubs mean more potential offers.

Yet Williams, who has had tryouts with clubs in Europe, said the problem of the stigma is not limited to North America. He also believes it will not go away soon.
"It's just politics and I don't think you're going to get rid of it," he explained. "They don't have faith in people like us."

Meanwhile, players believe the Caribbean has undeservedly suffered from the stigma.

"I don't think that's fair," said Marshall.
Gordon Williams is a Jamaican journalist based in the United States.

[Jamaica2099]

I think this "lazy and indiscipline label" is an excuse used by many of these big countries because the small Caribbean nations are surpassing their expectations.
The steadfast mindset that bigger is better has still not deluded them even after seeing the accomplishments of us and our Caribbean brothers.

[Tilla]

Lazy Boyz Label?

LAZY BOYZ LABEL? - Are Caribbean footballers stuck with a stigma overseas?


GORDON WILLIAMS, Contributor

( L - R ) Andy Williams, Tyrone Marshall - file
Players admit hearing about it. A few were asked directly. And at least one is sure it exists, claiming it has followed him during his career.

A stigma, labelling Caribbean footballers as lazy and undisciplined has been making the rounds of overseas professional football clubs for years, especially in North America, according to some of the game's insiders. The tag, they said, hurts players from the region, including Jamaicans, seeking contracts.

The insiders claim word has spread that some club officials believe Jamaicans and others from the Caribbean are unwilling to work hard and make sacrifices necessary to succeed, despite the record of accomplishments earned by countries and players past and present.
"It's just something that goes around, that Caribbean players are lazy," said Andy Williams, a Jamaica international midfielder who has played with six different United States Major League Soccer teams during a decade in the MLS, North America's top competition.

Williams is not the only one who claims to know about it.
"On a whole it's true to some extent," said national defender Shavar Thomas, now in his second season with Chivas USA after playing with three other MLS clubs over four years. "I've heard it."
Fellow Reggae Boy Tyrone Marshall, a 10-year MLS veteran, said he too is aware of the tag.

"I think they (clubs) underrate (Caribbean players)," explained the Toronto F.C. defender. "I don't think they give them any rating."

Closely scrutinised
A recent check showed more than a dozen Caribbean-born players on MLS rosters preparing for the 2008 season, which begins this month. Many on that list, among them five born in Jamaica, either migrated early to the U.S. with family or left the Caribbean after high school on scholarships to attend American universities where they were closely scrutinised. But players seeking to leave directly from the Caribbean to join clubs may not have that opportunity.

"The coaches or teams don't scout in the Caribbean," said Williams. "They'd rather go to Europe or South America."

Yet some football insiders are not ready to blame the so-called stigma solely for the absence of larger numbers of Caribbean players in the MLS or other North American leagues.

I don't know," said Clyde Jureidini, general manager of Harbour View Football Club, who has negotiated with American clubs over the years. "That has not been said to me."

Jureidini believes the clubs' marketing strategy influences where they recruit. U.S. clubs target American-born players first, he offered as an example, because their fans are more easily drawn to them. From there, he added, clubs may select players who will attract particular fans in the region they are located. For example, a club like Chivas USA, which has Thomas on its roster, is likely to target Hispanic players because the club is a spin-off from a club in Mexico and located in California, which shares the Mexican border and has a huge Hispanic population.

"They tend to recruit less from the Caribbean side because the Caribbean fan base in the U.S. is smaller," Jureidini explained.

However, Williams, who was raised in Jamaica but attended school in the U.S. before turning pro, said he discovered the "lazy" tag had been pinned on him, which forced him into a career-long battle to shake it off.

"That's my stigma in this league," he said. "But every coach I've had says the opposite."

"They use the term, that Caribbean players are sometimes lazy, not motivated, too laid back," explained Marshall, who said he was approached years ago by a club official who asked about the stigma attached to a player from the region. "That's why they don't really pursue the Caribbean players."

Yet Williams and Marshall said that, based on their experiences in the MLS, the stigma is not based on fact and both backed the efforts of their colleagues from the region even if they sometimes don't pay off.

"Every Caribbean player who comes here works his tail off," Williams said, "but they (the clubs) just pick somebody else."
"Caribbean players work hard," added Marshall.

Personally affected
MLS club officials contacted for this story also denied the stigma exists, at least within their organisation. One official, who did not want to be quoted, pointed to the make-up of his club's roster past and present as proof that Caribbean players were always welcome. At least one coach flatly declared that the nationality of the player did not influence whether or not he is signed.

"I don't think as a coach you look at stigmas," said Tom Soehn, of D.C. United of the MLS. "You look to make your team better ... I think we evaluate each individual."

Some Caribbean players in the league claim they have not been personally affected by any stigma. Thomas, for example, now in his second season at Chivas USA, said he was embraced by the club, coaches and fans from day one.

"It's amazing to me, the response I get from them," he said recalling last season.

But the label that the people of the region carry a "no problem", laid back attitude on and off the field, may have already done some damage, football insiders claim. Despite saying he had no proof that Jamaican players acted "lazy" when contracted overseas, Jureidini believes the perception could exist.

Not working hard
"I am speculating that that is a mindset, that Jamaican and Caribbean players are lazy, undisciplined and aggressive," explained the Harbour View G.M., who offered a list of players, including Marshall, Wolde Harris, Fabian Taylor, Anthony McCreath and Damani Ralph who represented his club and the MLS, but were never accused of not working hard.
"In my mind that is not so."

There is also suspicion that several Caribbean-grown players, who actually made it into North American leagues, did not stay long because the clubs were not pleased with their attitude. A few seasons ago one player, who has represented his Caribbean nation, said he was criticised by an MLS coach for not playing hard, even after he showed the club that injuries to his feet prevented him from being at his best. Word also circulated that a couple Jamaicans did not show the right attitude and were not signed or re-signed by their North American clubs.

"There may have been a few bad apples which may have given (the clubs) that view and that carries weight in the league," Marshall said.

So, despite the recent success of teams from the region, for example World Cup berths for Jamaica and Trinidad and Tobago over the last decade, professional teams are more likely to look elsewhere for talent.

While the MLS offers a genuine professional option, more Caribbean players prefer to play in Europe, particularly Great Britain. The pay and competition is generally better there and more clubs mean more potential offers.

Yet Williams, who has had tryouts with clubs in Europe, said the problem of the stigma is not limited to North America. He also believes it will not go away soon.

"It's just politics and I don't think you're going to get rid of it," he explained. "They don't have faith in people like us."

Meanwhile, players believe the Caribbean has undeservedly suffered from the stigma.

"I don't think that's fair," said Marshall.
Gordon Williams is a Jamaican journalist based in the United States.

[Assasin]

Many of the coaches in the MLS are former college coaches and based on the performance of some of our players in colleges it has left a bitter taste in the coaches mouths.

There is a decent percentage of our players who don't have the discipline. Just recently as last year a player was booted from a top University for their behavior.

I remember driving college recruits to tryout and the man them want light up spliff inna my car. One coach tells me while he respect talent from the caribbean but he doesn't want a group of Haitians, Jamaicans or Trini on his side as they normally just form a group within a group and creates problem. He said he had no problem getting one or two of each. This is someone who have worked with a lot of Jamaicans over the year and his grandparents are also Jamaicans.

A school I went a top Jamaican player went a year before me and he spent one semester by conning the coach as he couldn't get a high school certificate and worst he failed all the subject he took in midterm. Now why would a coach choose to waste money on these kind of players?

Yes I know I changed the coaches mind as he gave me his personal office telephone to use to contact recruits in Ja and he said anybody I recommended at the time would be eligible for some form of scholarship, and I was made captain of the team.

The point is we need to work harder and be more professional, having skills alone don't do it.

[Mosiah]

Many of the coaches in the MLS are former college coaches and based on the performance of some of our players in colleges it has left a bitter taste in the coaches mouths.

There is a decent percentage of our players who don't have the discipline. Just recently as last year a player was booted from a top University for their behavior.

I remember driving college recruits to tryout and the man them want light up spliff inna my car. One coach tells me while he respect talent from the caribbean but he doesn't want a group of Haitians, Jamaicans or Trini on his side as they normally just form a group within a group and creates problem. He said he had no problem getting one or two of each. This is someone who have worked with a lot of Jamaicans over the year and his grandparents are also Jamaicans.

A school I went a top Jamaican player went a year before me and he spent one semester by conning the coach as he couldn't get a high school certificate and worst he failed all the subject he took in midterm. Now why would a coach choose to waste money on these kind of players?

Yes I know I changed the coaches mind as he gave me his personal office telephone to use to contact recruits in Ja and he said anybody I recommended at the time would be eligible for some form of scholarship, and I was made captain of the team.

The point is we need to work harder and be more professional, having skills alone don't do it.

Couldn't he wait until he got to the field before him light up di spliff? Gosh!

Sass, the coach was embarrassed and should be for selecting a playing before properly checking out his background, academic and otherwise. I know I go thru hell sending all sorts of official documents to schools before they send an I-20 form, no matter how late in the season it may be.

A coach recently got in touch with me asking about prospective players that he could take a look at later this month. Yuh tink a just gwine send him some names? I have been asking about their academics, discipline and attitude before I send him any name.

Regarding our cliquish ways, what do they expect? Yes, it would be nice if we go drinking every night with them, but the important thing is if they perform as a TEAM when it matters.

I really think it is in our demeanour and gait why people believe we are lazy. We do not walk sprightly, and when it comes to doing drills, we still seem like we are just drifting, but the drills are still being completed in a timely manner. Ever noticed how some tourists run, like in the morning? Compare that to a local?

[Me]

Andy Williams
Onandi Lowe

Players like that stick in these coaches mind and as a result they ignore the Damani Ralph's and co.

[Assasin]

Mo like I do many Jamaicans don't take the physical side of practise very serious, we only want kick ball.

Some of the problem comes when a coach go a the bronx league, queens etc. and spot a player so they just get them in school back in the days while things were sorted out.

Back in the days we had a former Trini national youth who got into a program and he had nothing, not even a ss. He was a great player but the school admin said he couldn't stay after 3 months and they found out the whole story. The coach tell him he either had to disappear or go home and them try and work on things. Well he went home and after been refused the president of the college call immigration in Trinidad herself and he was back in school. This was based on the Kid's record and he went on to play in a decent league for a while after school. Nowadays it is a little tighter and if you send people who are not interested it make no sense as it will dry up the contacts.

Most of the coaches know that they are big men off the field but when you on the field or within the school property or transport them need fi behave themselves. Mo I worked at one institution where a Haitian player(real good one too) acutally rob the people them and got some Jamaican and Trinis involved. The feds were involved and it went to court, They eventually let go most and gave the main character a minor charge most based on us staff, black and white giving some character references and knowing that most were just victims, but this is the kind of behavior that give others a bad rap and make it bad for others.

Good luck to you and the youth them, I will make a brethren of mine link you when him a come down as you can be a decent source.

[Naminirt]

Wake up Dwight Yorke!
You're not living in the Caribbean now.
By: Chris Goldsmith (sportingo).

The bTrinidadian has played for many Premier League sides in his career but one thing will never change - his laziness.

For one Trinadadian footballer life, even in England, is relaxed - in fact no, he's just downright lazy. I'm talking about Dwight Yorke - the good-for-nothing footballer who spends more time on the front of the Sunday newspapers than on the back!

Dwight has had success at club level in the Premier League, you can't deny him that. He won a League Cup medal with Aston Villa where he spent the major part of his career and played a big part in Manchester United's three successive Premiership titles when he moved to the club to partner Andy Cole up front.

He has had various run-ins with managers throughout his career, most notably when Graeme Souness attacked him for not trying enough - good on you Graeme. When the manager and fans notice your a lazy so-and-so then it really doesn't look good.

When playing for Blackburn, Yorke was lack-lustre and spent most of his time either offside, because he was always on the goal line, or accused of not running after the ball. He was a waste of space. Maybe he got too big for his boots and thought he didn't need to try.

Subsequent moves to Birmingham and now Sunderland have been similarly unsuccessful for the veteran. His love life with model Jordan was bigger at times than his footballing career. He was a playboy, and a lazy one at that.

His largely unsuccessful career ourtside of Manchester Utd maybe indicates he was meerly a goal-tapper at Old Trafford and it was the other United players who made him look good rather than his actual skill.

Many people may feel I am being harsh on Dwight, but when you see him play for your club and he doesn't try and blames his team-mates then you can't build a good opinion of him. Graeme Souness had him down to a tee. The best thing Yorke can do now is retire as he has had his feet up for a long time already.


'He [Yorke] has had various run-ins with managers throughout his career, most notably with Graeme Souness'The relaxed atmosphere of the Caribbean Islands of Trinidad and Tobago are most people's idea of luxury and calm. With the hot sunshine and beautiful beaches anyone might be forgiven for lazing around and enojying the island's tranquility.

[Assasin]

good one nirt.

[OJ]

Yorke does not play lazy in games.

[Mosiah]

You know, if you think Maestro is lazy in games, you should see him in practice. Yes, he does the drills with everyone else, and he never languishes in the back, but once the scrimmage starts, I have hardly seen him try to dun di place. That might be the reason why he's still in Jamaica, apart from other things. Bricktop can explain the rest.