Who think dem know football?

[Mosiah]

okay.

[Karl]

Good answer to the last one! The ref should have stopped the play att he point when the ball hit the "outside agent" and restart the game with a drop ball. Strictly speaking, and that is very strictly speaking, Luton was lucky!

First answer is wrong. The player will still be judged offside if he was in an offside position when the ball was passed back, interfering with play assumed.

Passed back by whom?
The last defender or the last defender but one... in either case how can the attacker be off-side, if say, he was left in an off-side position from an attack that broke-down and then the defender/his opposite number in effect says, "Here...do with it as you will"?

No sir, Not of-side!

...if however, he was in an off-side position when the ball hit or was in any way mis-played by the defender while attempting to 'cut out' an attacking pass by the person in the off-side position's teammate... then?

Off-Side! Off-side being at the moment his teammate played the ball forward.

[Gamma]

are you sure the pass has to be by a teammate?

[Karl]

are you sure the pass has to be by a teammate?

1,000,000% sure you cannot be off-side from a deliberate pass made by the opponent...even if that opponent did not realise you were behind/blind-side of him!

Playing the ball in this sense is construed as a deliberate action of moving the ball in a particular direction...i.e. attempting to pass to your goalkeeper or another teammate...

...or even in the unlikely even that the ball was 'deliberately given' (e.g. a nudge to the opponent saying here!) to the opponent

[OJ]

false
goal
dropped ball

[OJ]

if you were in an offside position you are offside

[Mosiah]

check answers in this thread and the other one about Luton.

[OJ]

its assumed you are interfering with play. The red herring here is who pass the ball which is not relevant. If you are in an offside position and the ball is played to you you are offside.

[Gamma]

that's what i thought but karl is 100,000,000% that you would not be offside if the ball is played intentionally by a defender!

for the record i am only 100% sure that karl is wrong! he has me beat by 900,000%

[Karl]

its assumed you are interfering with play. The red herring here is who pass the ball which is not relevant. If you are in an offside position and the ball is played to you you are offside.

NB: A player is not off-side when he receives the ball direct from either of a throw-in, goal-kick or corner-kick! ...or when in his own half of the field of play.

Sorry!
...and, 100% sorry on Gamma's behalf!

Let me break down what you have just said with examples -

i) We all saw this sometime in the recent past - The goalkeeper puts the ball down with Arsenal's Henry behind him - No ball nearer the opponent's goal-line than Henry...no two defender nearer to his goal-line than Henry. Henry swiftly gets the ball and scores!

Goal!

The pass, such as it was, was made by the goal-keeper, Henry's opponent.

ii) One I cannot remember having seen - The defending team wins the ball from the attacking team...i.e. attack broke down. The defending team passes the ball around two or three times and then a member of the defending team passes back only to gift the ball to a lazy attacker coming back out from an off-side position! The attacker puts the ball in the goal.

Goal!

Well you could make the case and rightly so that the attacker was not off-side! ...as the ball previous to him 'accepting same'...'always' was with the defending team. ...but, if I understood you gentlemen you would have interpreted the attacker as being in an off-side position.

btw - If both or neither of the cases I mentioned did not fit within what you both were saying...then I have had ...and, still have...not have a clue what you both were taking about! If that is the case forgive me!

The point - A player cannot be declared off-side having been played the ball by a defender. That is totally different from a ball coming to an attacker who is in an off-side position and the ball on its flight to that attacker 'strikes' a member of the defending team who is not attempting to play the ball or even attempts to play the ball and the ball slips through to the attacker.

The attacker is off-side while that ball was in flight. ...not when the ball hits or bounces off the defender - In such a case off-sde must be called by assistant referee and referee.

-----------

http://www.fifa.com/flash/lotg/footb.../Laws11_01.htm

Play particular note of -
A player in an offside position is only penalised if, at the moment the ball touches or is played by one of his team, he is, in the opinion of the referee, involved in active play by:

• interfering with play or
• interfering with an opponent or
• gaining an advantage by being in that position.

--------


http://www.fifa.com/flash/lotg/footb...ash/start.html

[OJ]

Ok so my esteem bredin why in the world would you believe Karl. If karl tell you run walk, if he tell you laugh cry..

[OJ]

karl you are confusing the issue. If the keeper has the ball at his feet after making a save that is different from a goal kick. We also not arguing if players are active or not either.

[Karl]

karl you are confusing the issue. If the keeper has the ball at his feet after making a save that is different from a goal kick. We also not arguing if players are active or not either.

I do not see how I did that. I just refuted the position held by both gamma and you that it matters not who passes the ball to a player in an offside position.

Yes siree, contrary to what you think it surely does matter!

[Mosiah]

I agree with you Karl.

Consider this - If a player is lurking around the goal after the goalkeeper collects the ball and then, not aware of the lurking attacker, places it on the ground in order to kick it, is an offside called if the attacking player steals the ball and scores?

[OJ]

its not what your agree with is what the rule is. I think that is different from what you asked. Karl is using the myth that if a player on the opposing team passes the ball back it cant be offside which I have seen a bunch of argument over and I am saying it matters NOT who passes the ball back if you are actively in an offside position. The entire goal keeper scenario is different. If its a goal kick first of all you cant play the ball before it leaves the box. If its after a save and the keeper has the ball the ball is live and closer to his own goal than you so how is the offside argrument in this. Karl love spin the facts too much.