I see some good discussions on our

[Tilla]

Had he ever even been to Jamaica prior to suiting up for the national team?

Do we have to go down this road again Zeppo? The rules do not preclude anyone from playing from a country because they were not born there or have not visited before suiting up. All it says is that a player can claim citizenship through parents, grandparents or otherwise naturalized.

We did not complain when you guys grabbed Thomas Dooley and those two dot com players from Germany back in the day? You hurriedly signed up that French guy when it was convenient. You quickly give citizenship to foreigners to get them in your team. Anyway, I have no issues with all of those as long as you comply with the rules.

Let us be adult about the whole thing. When we start breaking the rules, point them out to us, but please refrain from using things that you are guilty of to point to the faults in our team.

BTW, we can expect you to be screaming too when Nosworthy is fit and suits up for the Boyz. Stop wining and argue like a man Zeppo. But then, I am making the assumption that you are a man. . .

[Zeppo]

I am not questioning any rules or legality.

Just responding to T.K.'s opinion:

"We may not be as good a team as the US but we do develop better strikers than you."

So did Jamaica develop Marlon King or am I wrong?

[Tilla]

So did Jamaica develop Marlon King or am I wrong?

But why is that an issue for you.

I guess the USA developed Thomas Dooley, Jeff Cunningham, the two Dot com players, the Frenchman etc? Right now the USA is benefiting more from a growing immigrant population than Jamaica is from its people in the diaspora. But if it floats your boat, no, we did not develop Marlon King. He can play for us because he has Jamaican blood. I guess a player like Adu can play for you because you won him in a visa lottery. Talk about developing players. . .

[Zeppo]

I'm just saying that you can't talk about Jamaica's developing of strikers and then tout Marlon King as an example. It doesn't wash.

And Adu came to the U.S. as a child and spent more of his life here than in any other country. He went through U.S. Soccer residency camp in Bradenton, Fla. and began his professional career in MLS (where he played for over 3 seasons).

The U.S. certainly cannot claim to be fully responsible for his development. But it had a much bigger hand in it than Jamaica did 'developing' Marlon King.

[Sensi]

Welcome back to the fold T.K. It is refreshing to see that you are embracing your own for a change instead of clinging on to the US bandwagon like sell-out HL. Keep it up bredrin...it is good to be a Reggae Boy!

[Gamma]

tom dooley? david regis? jean harbour? roy wegerle?

you used these guys to "develope" your football....'low us, ok?!

[T.K.]

Keep in mind that part of those were from the Copa America, where we sent a B team.

But you're right when you point out that U.S. forwards have been far from prolific lately. As I said, losing McBride has put us in a searching phase at the moment for a go-to guy up front.



Agreed.



Well, not until Tyrone Marshall broke his leg, anyway.

He has one well-taken goal for the U.S. in only an hour of total playing time. Not a bad start. Time will tell if he can cut it at the international level.



When he's been coming on and scoring goals for Benfica he's been doing it at forward.



Just Dempsey and Donovan, really. And Donovan plays forward at club level.

If anything we're guilty of converting forwards to midfield or defensive positions (Chris Albright, Quavas Kirk, etc.).



True. Dempsey has yet to really convince that forward should be his role.



Respect your opinion, T.K. But I just don't see it that way. And certainly nowhere near CONCACAF's best, as you were suggesting.

Marlon King is the best of those you named, and he is in no way a product of Jamaican football. Born and raised in England. Had he ever even been to Jamaica prior to suiting up for the national team?

Fuller has been a major disappointment when you think of the potential he showed as a youngster. He's in his late 20s now, too, and still a lower-division player. So if it ain't happened for him yet...

I'll have to see Shelton do something at the club level before I start to believe that he's anything close to being one of the best in the region.

And Teafore Bennett is a journeyman of second rate leagues around the world.

But believe it or not, my pick is for the top striking pair in CONCACAF is Honduras.

Suazo and Leon, two Serie A forwards (Inter and Genoa), will be a nightmare for any CONCACAF defense.

And as the draw has it they will very likely be facing the ReggaeBoyz soon!

Zeppo I was not talking about top striking pair. I was talking about our stable of strikers in our player pool vs. that of other countries in CONCACAF.

Even if you take out Marlon King we can go 7-8 strikers deep and still give top teams like the US serious match up issues. The strikers we have at our disposal have all the qualities of difference makers. We are big, strong, fast and have forwards with the individual brilliance to break down a defense and create goals out of nothing. No other concacaf country,as of today Dec. 4 2007, can boast as many forwards as we can with those qualities. Whenever we play the US your mid-field always dominates our mid-field yet our strikers still find ways to put you on your heels with very few touches of the ball.

We simply have developed significant depth and quality at that position. (more than the US at this time)

Regarding Freddy Adu yes he has scored his goals up top for Benfica. Not sure where Bradley sees him now but he's much like Altidore where he has to be given his time to shine before we can say he's striker material for the US. With Beasley out he may be forced to play a more traditional outside mid-fielder vs. an out and out winger with a true center forward which is what he plays with Benfica.

Speaking of Beasley.....did he not play forward in the 2nd half for the US when Dempsey was subbed out prior to Altidore coming on? There's another mid-fielder having to pretend to be forward. The Reggae Boys will never be in that position I can tell you. We have the quality up top to bring players in who can bring the fire.

Yes we will be facing Honduras in the semi-finals and to be frank you guys should get on your hands and knees and thank us for knocking them out for you yet again.

In either case I am just glad qualifying starts soon. As we can always look back on these conversations and call each other out. That to me is the best part of the forum. The cussings and discussings as Mexx would call it. - T.K.

[T.K.]

Welcome back to the fold T.K. It is refreshing to see that you are embracing your own for a change instead of clinging on to the US bandwagon like sell-out HL. Keep it up bredrin...it is good to be a Reggae Boy!

I have always been with the fold. If I wasn't I would not had been so mad when we were struggling the last few years. I embrace my own all the time Sensi. The thing is I get really annoyed when we don't do things in the proper way you know. Towel gate, king gate, directions gate...you name it I got frustrated and stated it.

When things go well I will also big up. Like even though Wendell was not quiet ready for the national team he did develop a very strong pool of players for the current coach of the Reggae Boyz. He sent many players overseas. As well when Boxhill got us matches with England and Ghana a big thumbs up from me.

You know me I get emotional one way or the other.

I am always on the US bandwagon. I am a big fan of US soccer. It's given me much in my youth coaching endeavors. The only time I root against the US is when it conflicts with our interests. After that I hope they do well everytime they play.

HL is good man. Don't get caught up in the rhetoric. He is no sell out. He is yard through and through. I have developed a theory about HL. HL's whole goal in life is to get under Mosiah's skin. (Mosiah is lie me a tell? )That is his way of entertaining himself during a long day of work. So whenever he posts he is going to post something with the intent of ticking of the boss man of the forum.

So here's how it goes......Mosiah makes a post coming out against the killing of puppies.......HL reads this post and waits 24 hours.......the next day HL will make a post that the killing of puppies is a good thing and that people living in Jamaica would know that if they lived in America. (Is lie mi telling HL? )

Yes being a Reggae Boy is good! I have a feeling about us this time around. I don't know what it is but I believe we are on the cusp of something special. - T.K.

[Mosiah]

Aaah bwoy. I like HL.

I also like orangutans.

[T.K.]

Aaah bwoy. I like HL.

I also like orangutans.

LOL....Between you, Gamma, Bricktop, Jawge and Warlord mi nuh know who worse to rhatid! - T.K.

[GaryD]

Mexico has a more "effective" forward line but frankly I think your entire line of reasoning once again ignore a critical element for success...playing as a team. I don't know what "better" means anyhow, so I could be off base entirely.

However, if we judge these players only on their individual prowess as you have described them, one would think each of them would be playing for a top team. Yet they are not. Additionally, when you throw them into our team mix, they seem to be somewhat less effective than what your position would lead me to belief.

To me we have a number of great athletes on the team; speed demons and folks with great (but ineffective) dribbling skills. We can continue to bleat like lost sheep about how great we are, which we do at the start of ever campaign, but somehow we still seem to be missing the key ingredients (whatever those are) that make us even a credible threat to the big boys, one of which on the face of it doesn't have our great forward line.

Guidance

[T.K.]

Mexico has a more "effective" forward line but frankly I think your entire line of reasoning once again ignore a critical element for success...playing as a team. I don't know what "better" means anyhow, so I could be off base entirely.

However, if we judge these players only on their individual prowess as you have described them, one would think each of them would be playing for a top team. Yet they are not. Additionally, when you throw them into our team mix, they seem to be somewhat less effective than what your position would lead me to belief.

To me we have a number of great athletes on the team; speed demons and folks with great (but ineffective) dribbling skills. We can continue to bleat like lost sheep about how great we are, which we do at the start of ever campaign, but somehow we still seem to be missing the key ingredients (whatever those are) that make us even a credible threat to the big boys, one of which on the face of it doesn't have our great forward line.

Guidance

LOL.....Mexico has a more "effective" everything GaryD.

I am not ignoring playing as a team. I take that into account and in my opinion right at this moment we are tops at the position. It is just my opinion. Clearly the only way to know if I am on to something or completely off base is when qualifiers start.

I am not sure what being on a top level club team has to do with anything in this case. It would be one thing if we could point to other teams in CONCACAF whose player pool at the striker position was stocked with players on top club teams. Unless of course, as Zeppo pointed out, you look at the two Hondurans in Italy. So they're top 2 strikers are in theory better than our top 2 but if you go past to positions 3-6 and take the entire group into account it is my opinion that our stable has more horses than theirs. Again I don't say this as fact I just say this as my opinion.

No where was I bleating about how great we are. I was simply stating that for all the mis-steps we have taken through the years the one area where we have excelled was by developing a deep striker pool. Sometimes we do get things right. I just thought it was something interesting to highlight since I had just finished reading about the US' striker woes.

Having quality forwards does not mean we'll be able to compete with the US's or Mexico's when it is all said and done. It takes much more than having depth at a position to knock those guys off. They are the kings of the region. We will have to be able to play as a team when it is all said and done to beat them. - T.K.

[Gamma]

yow...yuh put my name in the same line as jawge? how yuh fi diss jawge like dat?!! jawge deserve betta iyah!!

[HL]

T.K. ...it's not a good thing to spend a lot of time around folks who always agree with what you say...

I don't cope well with the fold (pack) mentality.