A Holostic Look at Rafa

[Sir X]

Boss yuh juss nuh get it leave it alone , and juss watch the ride.

[Assasin]

no get what? Him buy so many forwards and you say the forward line still weak? The owner them nuh get it either. Is like the dog and the bone who see a bigger one inna the water.

[Sir X]

Alonso, Pennant & Babel are forwards? If yuh a use midfielders and wingers fe justify yuh argument, could you understand the economics of buying a player within a certain budget ?

Does it limit the quality of your purchasing power? All those mentioned except Veronin were bought before the yanks took over.Veronin came on a fee transfer .

Watch the ride, you and (me) aka J.B , Yuttie etc .etc juss lef it alone.

[Sir X]

O.K assasin tell me what you get from this

Trouble at the top? Written by Matt Ladson on November 22nd, 2007 ▪ Subscribe to TIA Alerts


Today’s statement from Hicks and Gillett, seemingly in response to Rafa Benitez’s apparent unhappiness in Thursday’s press conference where he was clearly irked by something.

Reports in the media speculate that Benitez is unhappy over the owner’s apparent unwillingness to release the funds to sign Javier Mascherano, despite a deal apparently being agreed. Benitez is obviously keen to tie up the midfielder long term, as is the player himself keen to tie himself to the club, but it seems Hicks and Gillett aren’t ready to release the finances yet.

Benitez has spoke in the past of moving quicker in order to get targets in and any delays on the owners behalf would no doubt upset the boss.

The statement though from Hicks and Gillett is very strange and clearly is just a message to Benitez to say wait until December, but why release it as a statement?

Personally though, I disagree with the opening line of the statement “”We made a significant investment in the playing squad during the summer”. Let’s take a look at the summer arrivals and departures counting major signings (first team squad not youth players etc.) only.

Obviously there was a heavy amount spent on Torres (reportedly ₤26m), Babel (₤11.5m), Benayoun (₤4.5m), Lucas Leiva (₤6.5m) and Leto (₤2.5m). So we have a total expenditure of around ₤51m.

But there was a significant amount brought in with the sale of Cisse (₤5.4m), Bellamy (₤7.5m), Gonzalez (₤3.5m), Sinama Pongolle (₤2.7m), Garcia (as part of the Torres deal, ₤4m) and Paletta (undisclosed) so at least ₤22m recouped. Leaving a defecit of ₤29m - less than what Man United spent on Nani and Anderson combined, plus they added Hargreaves and Tevez!

Now we have the opportunity to purchase one of, if not the best holding midfielders in the world - a player happy at the club and who fits into the team brilliantly. ₤17m for a player of Mascherano’s calibre and age is a good price. It’s understandable why Benitez is so desperate to get the deal sorted and therefore begin focussing on other targets in January.

Benitez has spoke about learning from past mistakes in the transfer market and not letting targets go - rumour was that Simao could have been tied up if the club had moved faster, and allegedly pulled out of signing Darren Bent earlier in the year and that resulted in Benitez’s infamous outburst after the Champions League Final in May.

Rafa left Valencia over the club’s failure to back him in the transfer market and control over new signings, when he famously said “I asked for a table and they bought me a lampshade”.

Let’s hope whatever the differences of opinion between board and manager currently are, I sincerely hope they can be resolved to avoid any further disagreements.

We’ve come a long way Written by Matt Ladson on November 25th, 2007 ▪ Subscribe to TIA Alerts


What a truely wonderful Saturday - a superb performance resulting in a comfortable 3-0 win away from home, another clean sheet, 2 superb goals (each in a different way) and a defeat for the Mancs meaning we sit nicely placed, still unbeaten, and 3 points behind but with a game in hand. Beautiful.

So why does this Sunday not feel like such a beautiful day for Liverpool FC? If you’ve read the papers, turned on the news, browsed the internet or opened your eyes you’ll no doubt know why.

The rumour mill is certainly in overdrive at the moment and as much as you want to dismiss some of the speculation, it’s impossible when it is clear to see the relationship between Benitez and Hicks in particular, is far from ideal.

The question over what has started the disagreement remains to be seen - although it is clear it is over Rafa’s control of buying and selling players. The permanent signing of Javier Mascherano - and his ₤17m fee - certainly seems to be part of the cause, while it is also being said that Benitez is wanting to line up 2 Bosman transfers and seemed to be confirmed in Benitez’s post match interview on Saturday;

“It’s not a draft system. We have free players available now. I’m not talking about players that cost money.”

“We need to talk to the agents now, if not we will lose targets. In the summer, the players will be more expensive.

“I have not been talking about spending but doing the opposite. We have brought money back. We brought in £26million this year and you can see the value of the squad.”

Benitez quite rightly points out the £26m income this past summer - meaning the net spend for the club was far, far less than Man United’s - and even Sunderland’s! So when Hicks talks of ’spending more money than this club has ever spent’ he is clearly only talking about the individual fee of one player only.

And it seems the selling of players is also a major factor in the whole row between Rafa and the owners, another quote attibuted to Benitez yesterday makes it clear:

“It (the phone call) was the opposite, to bring money back. I am trying to do the best as a manager for my club to bring money back to spend some money on better players, and you can see the value of the squad.”

It is widely believed John Arne Riise, Momo Sissoko and Peter Crouch are available at the right price and in order to raise funds for Benitez to bring in Mascherano permanently, a new left back and a midfielder or forward. Names linked most heavily being Brazilian striker Alfonso Alves from Heerenveen and defender Ezequiel Garay from Racing Santander.

The whole situation of Hicks and Gillett seemingly banning Benitez from selling players is bizarre and the Spaniard’s already strained relationship with Rick Parry was underlined when he said “They (Hicks and Gillett) say now Rick Parry is in charge of signing and selling players at this moment, so OK, we will see.”

Benitez clearly has little faith in Parry, who it is said is often too slow moving in the transfer market and a reason why we have lost previous targets when available.

Rafa also said on Saturday - in what is being reported by the pathetic media as an ‘attack on the owners’ when clearly it is not, it is just Benitez standing up for what he feels is best for the club;

“I think they don’t understand what the transfer window means in Europe.

“When you sign a player he needs to settle down. They don’t understand how difficult it is to sign players. When you have the possibility now that you are free, you must do it or lose players. I’m trying to explain it, so it’s OK.

“We will keep calm and I will try to keep focused on winning games for my supporters. I think it’s not serious. If they understand what the market means for football here in Europe, they will understand I am trying to do my best for the club.”

The heartening line there though is “I’m trying to explain it, so it’s OK.” Which hopefully means Benitez will be able to explain himself.

Support

I whole heartedly support Benitez in the drama. How Hicks and Gillett can think that discussing things just two weeks prior to the transfer window opening is okay proves that Rafa is right that they don’t understand the European transfer system - especially with reference to tieing up transfers even for next summer now.

Evidence that Rafa is correct comes with Voronin’s arrival - which was announced last February but no doubt begun negotiating weeks or months prior to that - despite his arrival not being until this summer. Similarly, Lucas’ arrival was signed and sealed well before the summer window opened.

Further more, Benitez’s track record goes without saying. You only need to look at the squad he inherited and compare it with the squad he has built now and how close we are to having to a title winning team. I think the unanimous feeling amongst Liverpool fans - and seemingly shared by Benitez - is that we are 2 or 3 players short of the squad we want and need.

A perfect example to see how Benitez has improved the playing staff is with the 3 players named above and their quality compared to the players we had hanging around waiting to leave 3 years ago - the likes of Cheyrou, Diao, Biscan, Traore and Murphy.

The message to Hicks and Gillett: We’ve come a long, long way with Benitez - don’t let this be the end.

Message to those going to Porto on Wednesday: Rafa, Rafa-el, Rafa, , Rafa-el, Rafael Benitez - sing it.

[Paul Marin]

Assassin, that is not the issue between Rafa and Hicks. The issue is that Hicks is saying he won't talk about transfers (presumably because of the cost) and Rafa is saying you better talk NOW or else you will lose the targets - he is also saying that the targets he has in mind would come to the club on FREE transfers. X's point is valid.

[Assasin]

Well for one the writer didn't tell you the owner's side of the story. It seems like a the same thing Rafa did before at his old club. The man them have a business fi run and they are also building a new stadium as well. Look at all the players who came in over the last two years plus remember them give Gerard and Carriger new deals. Yes pool has improved but the owner them must a say a when it a go stop and we ago have the team we want especially looking at as a team such as Arsenal who haven't bought any big name in a while.

I can understand Rafa disappointment but at the same time he needs to improve his team by making his players better.

[Sir X]

Well for one the writer didn't tell you the owner's side of the story......WOW.

I should have stuck to my guns and juss lef the argument alone watch the ride Boss .

[Assasin]

Did he as much as got a quote from them?

[Assasin]

Well it comes down to that but what I am saying is every club have a period where they go through a lean transfer period and it seems like Hicks it tightening up right now and Rafa can't deal with it. If he was interested in transfers he would have met with Rafa before and not take away the responsiblity from him. Meeting with him now is just blowing him off.

[Paul Marin]

Assassin, the thing that I think you're misunderstanding is that the process of building a squad is not a static endeavour. It is a constant process.

In Rafa's defense, you can't run a football club by saying "there, we have our squad, we're done!!" You ALWAYS have to be looking at the squad's improvement which means you ALWAYS have to be planning for the transfer market.

Now, if the owners are saying "we have no more money", then that is disengenous as well, because the asset base of players can be used. In otherwords, if they say, that, then the manager should be able to say "okay, let me sell crouch, kewell, riise for $x and buy mascherano for $x". That is the manager's job so to put the transfer activity in the hands of the General Manager is direct f-ry in my opinion and a clear sign that Hicks and Gillette don't have a CLUE about what they are doing - EVEN IF THEY ARE RIGHT ON EVERYTHING ELSE!!

Anyway, the bottom line is that the club will face a true crisis if they don't figure this out quickly, but I will remind everyone that the same was said of Jose's departure, and Chelsea have arguably improved since his he left. So you never know.

Still, I back Rafa, not Hicks & Gillette. They are sitting in America while Thaksen, Roman, Randy Lerner even Glazer pickney dem and every other foreign owner find themselves in England. THIS is a BIG PROBLEM for some Reds fans, including this one.

[Sir X]

Comments
Rafa is one of the best managers in the english game, his achievements show that! If the americans want to sack him just to feed their own egos them i'm sure another club somewhere in the world will be very happy when he goes and manages them!
Posted by tom on November 26, 2007 3:14 PM
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The American owners show they don't know anything about transfer windows and they will be losers as well as LFC fans if Safa walks away now.
Eventhough I didnt like the rotation policy, I still have trust in Rafa, and now I am worried that Rafa has enough. I prefer him going to Bayern Munchen and win another Champion League with them. The I am not going to watch LFC anymore.
Posted by Richard Lee on November 26, 2007 2:48 PM
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for MALENKI...why is it nonsense.fact is the the new owners never gave the 40-50 mil being quoted and that is a fact.they gave between 17 and 24 mil. we have a sdquad strong enough to challenge in all areas but if rafa belives he needs strength in certain areas then why not. these owners are not here for passion they are here to make money and if they want they money they need to invest 1st.
Posted by nate on November 26, 2007 2:40 PM
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Rafa IS RIGHT TO SHOUT OUT HIS FEELINGS,HE IS USED TO IT SINCE ITS PART OF HIS MANAGERIAL JOB.SHOUT ,SHOUT,RAFA-EVEN MC LAREN WAS SACKED WITHOUT SHOUTING
Posted by ERIC BARAZA on November 26, 2007 1:29 PM
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The manager is right he knows the players he needs to strenghten team not two Yanks who possibly know nothing about football, then the manager will get the blame if things go wrong
Posted by o buck on November 26, 2007 1:04 PM
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Great,just great,we get the best Manager we have had in years,and now we have the daunting prospect,that he could get the sack.
Liverpool F.C.have a great history,and each year we try to win the conveted premiership.
Now to do that,we need a squad of players,that can win it for us,we also need a squad to play on another three fronts.The last few years have seen glory comeback to LFC.In the way of the champions league,and also in the final last year.That`s got to tell you something,that we have the right man for the job.
To achieve this we need money,we also need a manager who is good at what he does.
When you manage a team like LFC,do you want a team that languishes mid table each year,no because LFC,have set a bench mark so high that mid table is not good enough,if that were the case,bring in the likes of lets say,Martin Jol,and forget about finishing in the top four.But we don`t want that,we want to compete with the best,and to do that,we need more money,to buy,and to complete the sighing of certain players.let the manager do his job,Not let another Business man get in the way,and use it as a Commodity,to win and to compete to the very best standard,as LFC,have always done give him what he wants.
You ain`t going to get anyone any better,that are not going to ask the same thing,as Rafa is.

Posted by Once a red..... on November 26, 2007 12:57 PM
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Being a fervent supporter of Liverpool Football Club, I am truely worried by what the press had said so far. Liverpool is improving and playing good football; we havn't lost a league game so far to prove the point.
The bottom line is Rafa is a brilliant manager and we should not sack him. Let's work this out the Liverpool way! I have been a Liverpool supporter for over 20 years and i havn't seen mess like this.
Posted by chlam on November 26, 2007 12:53 PM
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as a liverpool fan, the board should let the manager choose the players he wants.having said that he has a decent enough squad to do well this season,judge him at the end of the season.
Posted by polly on November 26, 2007 12:39 PM
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As the primary source of income in the city is handouts, the manager has quickly fallen in step with local practice. Demand money from someone richer than you and then whinge repeatedly that it is not enough.

Well done Rafa, true Scouser.
Posted by I am paying your mortgage on November 26, 2007 12:37 PM
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I can see the argument both ways. I agree he hasn't had £40-£50 million to spend, but at the same time he should just shut up and get on with winning games. The players he got rid of in the summer were players he bought (& quickly got rid of), and the reason we are in the position of having to win our last 2 games in the CL & should be top top in the league instead of 5th, is because he's continually messed about with the team, (leaving out the players he demanded he needed to buy) Rafa, the supporters are with you, but just play your strongest team (if you know what it is) stop moaning (in public) and get on with it. If Rick Parry is the go-between the owners he needs to get this sorted out quick time. It would make no sense whatso-ever getting rid of a coach after giving him so much £ to spend & having to start all over again with someone else's ideas. We are not Newcastle or Man City, we are Liverpool.
Posted by Chris on November 26, 2007 11:35 AM
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Benitez' rotation system plays havoc with my fantasy team, so I've transferred the Liverpool players out. I'm not convinced the players benefit from it either, but we'll soon see if he gets the boot and his replacement sticks with a core of players.
Posted by Hamish, Glasgow on November 26, 2007 11:29 AM
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Benitez has raised the stakes in a game he cannot win and he is an idiot for doing so. Did he not see what happened to Mourhino at Chelsea? It doesn't matter what he's achieved with us so far, because as the saying goes, he who pays the piper calls the tune. If he wanted to rant at the new owners then he should do in private, slanging matches in the public eye is not the Liverpool way. And anyone who thinks that Benetiz just stating what he feels about the situation was not an attack on the new owners does not have any ounce of political acumen, he knew exactly what he was doing. Don't know if this will be resolved but ultimately it won't be Benitez.
Posted by Brian on November 26, 2007 11:01 AM
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Crackers - win our game in hand and we're second in the league. Given that we are playing rubbish and missed a hat full on sat this isnt bad. As we're not London or Manchester based the press love to stir it up. You can see who is a Manu fan each time they stress we're outside the european cup positions and fail to use the minus sign on their calculators when working out our spending. We'd be daft to get rid of rafa, but I wish he'd just shut it. No one seems to have picked up he has been told to coach and wore a tracky on sat - quality.
Posted by Al on November 26, 2007 10:52 AM
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to all those stating RB spent less (net 20 mill) because he netted another 20 mill. nonsense. he SPENT more than 44 million. fact. this represents his choice of new players to the squad. presumably the players sold were excess baggage.
and now he wants another 10 mill (i dont count mascherano). the yanks have a point, and RB should stop being so foolish.
Posted by malenki on November 26, 2007 10:44 AM
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why do the Americans insist on these press statements? if they don't like what Rafa is saying stop talking to the press and talk to the man - don't they have phones in the US? this is not the Liverpool way
Posted by s lloyd on November 26, 2007 10:41 AM
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Let's not all get hyped up and opinionated until we know what's really going on. It is very easy to formulate arguments based on speculation, but until we know the truth, lets be quiet, patient and get behind our Chairmen, Chief Executive and our Manager. This could be our year!!
Posted by Charlie on November 26, 2007 10:40 AM
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I don't see what the problem is with what the Chairmen have said here. Not so many months ago, these fellas were being welcomed with open arms for their open cheque-books, and now they are being criticized for having the temerity to suggest that their employee get on with his job with the not inconsiderable resources (which he chose) at his disposal.

The fact that Benitez is now throwing his toys out of his cot very publically suggests to me that he is looking for a way out and a payoff. It's bad behaviour and if he carries on, he deserves to get the sack.

The big irony of course is that Champions League aside, Liverpool are well placed, unbeaten, and eminently capable of challenging for some silverware. Benitez needs to shut up, get on with it or get out.
Posted by Westcoast on November 26, 2007 10:38 AM
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If the americans sack Rafa Benitez they will become as unpopular as the Glazers were when they took over Man U, if not more so - at least they didn't interfere with the team (selling and buying)or sack a successful manager. and Rafa will be sacked for what? Saying they don't understand how football works which they don't.
Posted by Charlotte on November 26, 2007 10:11 AM
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Having heard the question and listened to the answer, there is no way Rafa Benitez criticised the clubs owners after the win against Newcastle.
He merely pointed out that IF they were to wait until December, after their home game against Man United, they may be too late to get the players they have been watching. This was NOT a criticism, just a statement of fact.
Another thing, what does Rick Parry know about football players compared to what Rafa Benitez knows?
Posted by Geoff Turner on November 26, 2007 9:53 AM
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i hate it when the sums of 40 & 50 mil are constantly being brought up when the people who write these reports should know this was not the case after selling players.you will find the sum spent is in the range of 17-20 mil.
If they sack rafa then liverpool fc will have no chance of winning the league or champions league. Its quite laughable as there is no other manager out there like rafa.


Posted by nathan jones on November 26, 2007 9:29 AM
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A good article with one minor issue. Rafa Benitez wasn't given £40 million in the summer to spend on new players. He sold players for around £25 million and received only around £15 million which he has received over that past 2 summers. Rick Parry's sluggishness in the transfer market has cost Liverpool some great players and it would be a shame if this continued.
Posted by Carl on November 26, 2007 9:15 AM
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Whilst I admit all is not well at Liverpool, how many times are you sports journalists going to keep stating that Rafa was given £40 million to spend in the summer without pointing out that he actually recouped nearly half of that back in sales? How about some balanced perspective? His NET spend was more like £20-23m. Which is that, just a bit more than a Carrick?

Nor did he launch a 'fresh attack' on the US owners after the Newcastle win. Can't you publish what actually happened without resorting to words like 'attack'? Rafa answered a question, trying to explain what his point of view was. He simply stated his views on the transfer window and planning that needs to take place beforehand. Yes, he shouldn't have done this in public in my opinion, but it was more conciliatory than an attack.


Posted by Rob on November 26, 2007 9:11 AM
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These Americans seem to think money can be made from investing in Liverpool, this is not the case.

They must be prepared to lose millions like Chelsea have.
Posted by Chris U on November 26, 2007 9:05 AM
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Since when does a club owner know who is the best player to sign? No wonder Rafa is frustrated!

This is what happened at Chelsea between Mourinho and Abramovich; and we all know which player was the biggest waste of money there.
Posted by Marcus on November 26, 2007 9:05 AM
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[Sir X]

Rick Parry has to go!

[Assasin]

It is a problem but also remember them man yah a businessmen too. Rafa give them nuff credit to get Torres but sometimes as owners they don't respond to the manager's every need.

Is not every transfer window them a go open up. Anyway Rafa backtrack somewhat and said he hope they will solve things when they get there.