all this because emgland might not qualify for euro

[Zeppo]

What obstacles exactly?

I still don't see how the Premier League is dependent on having a strong English national team.

These quotes come from the chairman of Birmingham City when he recently gave his views on this issue. The article is worth reading:

"We've got to live with the current situation because the Premier League is driving football," said Gold.

"I cannot see how you can legislate to stop overseas players from coming to the country. You can't alter this."

[...]

"The question is are you happy for your club to have 50% of their players come from overseas or are you more concerned about the national team?" he said.

"It depends where you're looking from - whether you're on the beach in the summer and you're concerned about the national team, or it's Saturday and you're at Chelsea or Arsenal. You can't have it both ways."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/6977939.stm

[Gamma]

from the bench? i realise you are working with limitations..don't tax yourself.

[Gamma]

it wasn't intended to be arsenal man u...but you see what you want. if youwere to search you would find that no one on here is a bigger fan of "la brujita" than i am.

rule of thumb jawge if you have doubts about the PLAIN and ORDINARY meaning of what i write, ask me. your quantum leaps are often times nonsensical and sometimes downright annoying.

[Karl]

What obstacles exactly?

I still don't see how the Premier League is dependent on having a strong English national team.

These quotes come from the chairman of Birmingham City when he recently gave his views on this issue. The article is worth reading:



http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/6977939.stm

Whatever the obstacles to England having the very best national team?

Where are the creative players like a Stan Mathews or a Johnny Barnes? ...players who could take apart and rip asunder any defense.

Why is it only foreigners - Sir Alex, Wenger, etc. that are managing teams that give creative players full reign to express themselves on the field?

Could it be that enough England born managers and or clubs are not unearthing and or turning out top quality players? ...if so, why not?

What is happening in training of coaches and coaching at the lower levels - age-group through to U-21 through to seniors?

Zeppo: Who knows...perhaps somewhere in the above and other questions like path to identifying some of the obstacles?

[Zeppo]

I certainly agree, Karl, that England is lacking in talented players at the moment. Sure, their starting 11 is good, but going beyond that they are facing some serious problems in depth.

And the high number of foreign players in the Premiership isn't going to help them at all. In fact, I read awhile ago that there are only 6 English goalkeepers starting regularly in the league. And when Paul Robinson is the best one that they have then they are in trouble!

But again, those are obstacles for the England team to overcome, not the Premier League.

The Premier League seeks to produce the best product possible -- with English players or without them.

And limiting the number of foreign players can only be done with non-EU players. Any attempt to limit the number of European players in the league would be in direct violation of European law.

[Gamma]

that is correct......it's not for the EPL to produce the quality players per se...EPL is more interested in the finished product.....it's for the clubs and academies to produce quality players!

[Lazie]

that is correct......it's not for the EPL to produce the quality players per se...EPL is more interested in the finished product.....it's for the clubs and academies to produce quality players!

... clubs are going out to purchase talent instead of bringing players through academies. How is the national team going to benefit? Wenger has always said that his obligation is not to the English national team, but to Arsenal and he is right. However, if England is not able to compete in international competitions, it is the FA's responsibility to address the situation. Look at Blackburn, Spurs and Portsmouth, pretty soon the top 10 won't have much English players.

Again, as Fergie indicated after the English loss in Russia, there are not enough English players in the champions league, therefore the players are not prepared for such situations. He too has a point.

[Gamma]

well lazie...it's begging the question...do they DESERVE to be in the champion's league? if they are good enough they will be no?

what fergie seems to be saying is that there aren't enough good english players. if they were good enough then they would play champions league for italian, spanish, french, german or even portuguese and turkish clubs. read the spin!

france has consistently had players in all the top 4 leagues, can england say the same? i mean is it that if they are notplaying cl for an english team they cannot play c/l at all? bearing in mind that only 3 or is it 4 english clubs qualify.

[Lazie]

well lazie...it's begging the question...do they DESERVE to be in the champion's league? if they are good enough they will be no?

what fergie seems to be saying is that there aren't enough good english players. if they were good enough then they would play champions league for italian, spanish, french, german or even portuguese and turkish clubs. read the spin!

france has consistently had players in all the top 4 leagues, can england say the same? i mean is it that if they are notplaying cl for an english team they cannot play c/l at all? bearing in mind that only 3 or is it 4 english clubs qualify.

The spin is actually coming from you. Are you saying players like Sol Campbell isn't good enough for the Champions League? Are you saying a Gareth Barry not good enough for the CL? All the man is saying is that playing only in the EPL doesn't prepare the players for what they encountered in Russia.

Maybe they should look to go to other leagues, but then, would they pick up the big money in France Portugal or Turkey?

I'm not saying I'm for or against? Just that I can see the argument from both sides.

[Gamma]

i see you eventually came to grips with what i am saying even though you entirely misread the spin initially...good for you.

maybe what you should ask is do they WANT to play CL.....

[Jawge]

To put it bluntly:
England's problem has nothing to do with foreigners. Is Gazza a foreigner? I think it stems from coaching at the youth level. here I think the young is not allowed to express themselves and be creative. The youth coaches seem to emphasize running and finishing techniques (shooting and heading). Look at beckham; one can see that if he was born in S.America or even Portugal he would be and exciting player. It's easy to trap him and take the ball (zero dribbling skills can't surprise you with nothing). Most of the current crop of English attacking players rely on speed. As they age; their speed wanes hence they cannot turn quickly and make up for that split second off balance (see Jole cole and Michael Owen. please note Rooney is of the same mold). Since Gazza; I haven't seen a creative player from England. Oh sorry, guess who? crouch, yes Crouch. They should let him play midfield (I guess he may be to slow for today's game in the middle).

[Zeppo]

However, if England is not able to compete in international competitions, it is the FA's responsibility to address the situation.

This is true.

But if by law they cannot limit the amount of foreign (EU) players in the Premiership then there is not much they can do.

They can concentrate on youth academies in England, but now the problem is that the bigger clubs have even started bringing foreign youngsters into their academies.

It's a tough problem with no easy solutions. It seems that, in a way, England is a victim of the Premier League's success.

[Baddaz]

gamma, i had posted this article a few days ago... i see racism in blatter's comments... the foreigners in the english football league has nothing to do with england's national teams failures... look at the french league, it has way more foreigners than the english league, their national team isn't suffering... take a look at the foreigners in england, a high amount of african ballers... thats what they are trying to prevent...

if the bpl is the highest paying football league, they will want to have the best ballers that their money can buy... if england produced the better ballers they would have been in the league...

the thing they overlook is the contribution foreigners bring to the development of the english game... the africans have enhanced the english game with their technique and creativty... what they fail to realise is that its a cycle... their game was stagnant and lacked creativity for a long time... the africans came and showcased creativity and the younger generation of english players will learn from that and develop the technique and creativity in their game.. then some more will make it to the bpl... cannot stifle talent... the cream rises to the top...

[Lazie]

gamma, i had posted this article a few days ago... i see racism in blatter's comments... the foreigners in the english football league has nothing to do with england's national teams failures... look at the french league, it has way more foreigners than the english league, their national team isn't suffering... take a look at the foreigners in england, a high amount of african ballers... thats what they are trying to prevent...

if the bpl is the highest paying football league, they will want to have the best ballers that their money can buy... if england produced the better ballers they would have been in the league...

the thing they overlook is the contribution foreigners bring to the development of the english game... the africans have enhanced the english game with their technique and creativty... what they fail to realise is that its a cycle... their game was stagnant and lacked creativity for a long time... the africans came and showcased creativity and the younger generation of english players will learn from that and develop the technique and creativity in their game.. then some more will make it to the bpl... cannot stifle talent... the cream rises to the top...

Racism? Come on Baddaz. Are Americans, Brazilians and Argentines foreginers too? Are the French, Spanish and Portuguese foreigners within the EPL? Reread what Blatter said. It has nothing to do with stifling African talent as what he is proposing would affect all foriegners in a league.

As I indicated to Gamma in an earlier post, the French top players all play in the top clubs in England, Spain, Germany and Italy, therefore they won't complain about foreigners in their leagues.

[Lazie]

This is true.

But if by law they cannot limit the amount of foreign (EU) players in the Premiership then there is not much they can do.

They can concentrate on youth academies in England, but now the problem is that the bigger clubs have even started bringing foreign youngsters into their academies.

It's a tough problem with no easy solutions. It seems that, in a way, England is a victim of the Premier League's success.

Well, I read where Blatter is in discussions with the EU, so lets see what come out of that. I wish I could sit in on those FA meetings to find a solution to this problem.