In defense of Village United. HOLD UP BOSS, Let's be fair!

[Westman]

If we look at Village United's success of the past several years, we would be hard pressed to find another NPL team in a small market that has done so well. Village has had to use premises thatare dedicated public premises, into which they have pumped money, but for which they cannot gain control. In fact, they cannot even get a proper lease on the facility which would allow them to make worthwhile investments which, in turn, would allow them to draw more and higher paying fans so that they could recover their investment in areasonable time.

It is very important that the Trelawny Parish Council, the local Member of Parliament, the Ministry of Sports, the JFF and other influential parties get involved and help Village resolve their dilemma. There is a lot of talent in the west and in Trelawny that benefits from Village's success. For the benefit of Jamaican football, it is vital to have Village do well.

I am personally aware of the finanacial and other business challenges facing Village. No other NPL that has equal or better success in the past 5 years has made ends meet and had to deal with the challenges of the proportion that Village has dealt with, considering their size. So when posters, here, especially friendly ones, question the business acumen or initiative of the Village ownership and management team, I will have to shout HOLD UP BOSS, Let's be fair!

If Village only considered the bottom line, they would leave Trelawny. We cannot have that and will not stand for that. The town, parish, the West, Jamaica would all suffer. THANK GOD FOR VILLAGE UNITED!

[OJ]

RE: In defense of Village United. HOLD UP BOSS, Let's be fair!

Thanks for the info.. Karl how are you today..

[Assasin]

RE: In defense of Village United. HOLD UP BOSS, Let's be fair!

Village seems to be a very progressive team.



I hope they continue to strive. They have made some bold moves in terms of personnel and having a discipline structure.



The problem with them and the field needs to be resolved but it seems like they are getting nowhere with the PC based on what I read. If there is a time for positive intervention from the football minded people that is it.



It could also serve as an example for other clubs who are in a similar position if they could get the field and upkeep it themselves and turn it into a positive community venture.

[Karl]

RE: In defense of Village United. HOLD UP BOSS, Let's be fair!

Good defense of Village...but, my questions still stand. In fact, on the matter of a playing field I think Village needs to look outside of using the Elleston Wakeland facility...and, look to own property with an eye on the future of the club.

As you well know I have friends in Trelawny Football management...but, Village needs to do much more. Perhaps, seeking twinning with an entity such as Sandals or Breezes may be the way to go.But, a purchase of 4 or5 acres and perhaps, leasing an adjoining 5 acresas a start would be good. Perhaps, even a move up towards Martha Brae...or, away from Falmouth in another direction is the way to go.

The land would be less expensive and the problems with traffic could be addressed. Perhaps, the Parish council could be approached and both parties (i.e. Village & her sponsors on the one hand and the PC on the other) could look at the increased economic activity that having a successful Village will have on the town of Falmouth and paths along the road going towards Martha Brae?It is necessay to have the private sector groups and persons outside of Trelawny with roots in the parish on board.

Perhaps, Linnie, for example,would do worse than inviting you to serve. (...or, he has you on board already?)

Oh...still hold to the line that the Village leaders are dragging foot!

Hey..if you need it I could get you the name of the former sports mad William Knibb & Mico College past student, former teacher at Knibb, former Knibb sprinter, former Martha Brae resident, and former collegue with Anita Belnavis as SDC Officers based in Falmouth..."Bobby" Scarlett.Village needs to seek out such asBobby Scarlett and your professionals and others outside of Trelawny and get them involved. It means doing some work...but, I am sure as it is for all parishes...the people would come together around a tangible...can reach out and touch and beinturn be touched by Village...project/cause.

...and, what about Keith Scott fromerly of Duncans now with Statin?

...your primary school & high school Trelawny bredren...and, each member and or friend of Village? Reach out! You may be surprised at the response!

Thank God for Village United...and with the coming together of friends of Village,workof Village United's leadersand God's blessing we look forward to a successfulfirst world Village!

[Westman]

RE: In defense of Village United. HOLD UP BOSS, Let's be fair!

Karl, Karl, Karl, Karl, Karl, Karl. Why do you try to make this thing seem so simple as if to imply that the folks managing the team are a bunch of doofusses? If it all was that simple it would have been solved a long time ago.

Let's get something out of the way. I know all the names you have mentioned. Why do you believe that former athletes necessarily make good business managers? Why does an ex-sprinter know to manage a football team's business well? Why do you think the ownership of a business, yes football business, will necessarily find solutions to their business problems with football venue, maintenance, parking, etc. by consulting folks just because they were great sprinters and table tennis players, etc? Why, why,why, why, why do you confuse the office of Parish Federation President with the leadership/ownership of Village United. One should be an advocate but not to the detrement of the rest of the parish. Come on Karl. You can do better.

For Village to stay in the Falmouth area, the best thing is for them to be at Elleston Wakeland and not to go out of the town. The people who run it, the coach and primary manager, were my classmates at Cornwall.I have spoken with them at length about this. They could easily move the team to MoBay and do better financially. However, they are committed to Falmouth & Trelawny.

The ownership has to struggle with payroll issues, run their personal business and take care of their families. For them to go and buy another site, develop it from scratch, allow for parking, etc. is not an easy thing. Did Arnett do all that for themselves? Did Harbour View? Heck no!

Itis a business Karl, and the community has a role to play. I know what it takes to develop facilities....millions of bucks. With their limited gate receipts, no tv revenue, extremely limited radio revenue, they have to do it a little at a time. A lot of their own funds get put into the venture as a labour of love.

I saw some other ignorance posted here. Village is no different than Arnett as far as the nature of the political affiliation of its parent constituency. I think the reason other teams fared better with the sponsorship is that some of the negotiators are at once top govt officials and top club officials. The politics with Village might be due to the Parish Council. The other thing is that the MP for the constituency, a very loyal constituency, is a back bencher in parliament. Do you understand what that means and the limited influence he has on his own as compared to the MPs for some of the other places that have teams that are getting big sponsorships?

As for getting govt help, govt is building Greenfield nearby with a loan from China. Do you think they are going to do anything significantin Falmouth areaafter that? Karl, they have broken ground for the same police station about four different times in the same place. So do you think the govt is going to spend any money on anything to benefit Village? The best return on money is to fix up Elleston Wakeland. It is right there in the community. Parking, though informal, is right there. Police are right there. Hospital is right there. Population can walk to games. etc, etc, etc.

Parish Council and some in Central govt say that a deed restriction or something similar is in the way of leasing the property and that the property is for public use. I have written elsewhere before on how to allow Village's investment in bettering the place, allow them to have primary use of half of the premises most of the time, have a separate adjacent field on the grounds for the public to use, have Village make the primary secured field available for public functions, with safeguards, at times when Village is not using the field, without subjecting the field or Village's investment to loss or harm.

Come on Karl

[Karl]

RE: In defense of Village United. HOLD UP BOSS, Let's be fair!

OJ (8/8/2006)Thanks for the info.. Karl how are you today..

Very Good!

[Karl]

RE: In defense of Village United. HOLD UP BOSS, Let's be fair!

Westman: Do not get hot under the collar. As you asked about Scarlett and Scott...so I could say because the managers of Village are your friends it does not follow they are good managers.

...and, it also follows that because they work long and hard it does notmean that they are working well...or, indeed have worked well in the past!

...and, putting one's own money in a project shows committment and speaks to that committment but not to whether or not you are working well.

Ofcourse in forums such as this there are never detailed explanations on how to accomplish feats....it is alway just a pointing in 'possible' directions. It may even mean what is suggested here has already been tried in some manner...but, it could also mean that what is published here causes the 'doer' to see from a different angle the same basic premise...but, with a new understanding or thinking on method to accomplish the task.

I am saying if Village has been around for God know how long andthe entity is still struggling to find a home...it is obvious the leaders failed to find a home...they failed. As it now stands you have returned to the point about Elleston Wakefield being the ONLY (my emphasis) home for Village. So it is a lousy arrangement - your friends and managers keep saying that... Well you as a manager know it is your friends' job as managers of the club to have fixed that.They have not! They have failed! They are not good managers...even if you would like to limit the matter of being not good managers to failure to secure a field for their TEAM, their Club...they are failed managers!

...and, why would sensible good managers accept for many, many years this poor arrangement and foist it on the club...their club for so many years? Makes sense?

[Karl]

RE: In defense of Village United. HOLD UP BOSS, Let's be fair!

Oh Westman...You do know, I know that you do know that the reference to Bobby Scarlett and Keith Scott was just a pointing in a direction...and, that has nothing to do with the person Bobby Scarlett and the person Keith Scott...but the idea of searching the world for your people and selling them on coming to the rescue of Village!

Cho man!

[Westman]

RE: In defense of Village United. HOLD UP BOSS, Let's be fair!

I cant believe all of you gobbledygook and crap. I am stunned. You really do not understand the issues and you attack the business managers ability out of pure ignorance. I know all involved including the ones you suggested. The ones at Village are proven ssuccessful business managers. The others cannot follow them in business.Karl do not let ignorance lead you into suppositions and assumptions which unfairly demean people's abilities and efforts.

If Village, like some other communities, had the government build them a facility, the playing field would be level. Well it wouldnt ecause other teams would still be without. A small market team like Village has to meet payroll that can compete with the top teams who have huge game day draws and much better facilities. They are at a huge disadvantage. You dont know the facts but you decide to disparage. I am not hot, just disppointed you. I thought you were more reasonable.

[Karl]

RE: In defense of Village United. HOLD UP BOSS, Let's be fair!

[quote]Westman (8/8/2006)Karl, Karl, Karl, Karl, Karl, Karl. Why do you try to make this thing seem so simple as if to imply that the folks managing the team are a bunch of doofusses? If it all was that simple it would have been solved a long time ago.

Let's get something out of the way. I know all the names you have mentioned. Why do you believe that former athletes necessarily make good business managers? Why does an ex-sprinter know to manage a football team's business well? Why do you think the ownership of a business, yes football business, will necessarily find solutions to their business problems with football venue, maintenance, parking, etc. by consulting folks just because they were great sprinters and table tennis players, etc? Why, why,why, why, why do you confuse the office of Parish Federation President with the leadership/ownership of Village United. One should be an advocate but not to the detrement of the rest of the parish. Come on Karl. You can do better.

For Village to stay in the Falmouth area, the best thing is for them to be at Elleston Wakeland and not to go out of the town. The people who run it, the coach and primary manager, were my classmates at Cornwall.I have spoken with them at length about this. They could easily move the team to MoBay and do better financially. However, they are committed to Falmouth & Trelawny.

The ownership has to struggle with payroll issues, run their personal business and take care of their families. For them to go and buy another site, develop it from scratch, allow for parking, etc. is not an easy thing. Did Arnett do all that for themselves? Did Harbour View? Heck no!

Itis a business Karl, and the community has a role to play. I know what it takes to develop facilities....millions of bucks. With their limited gate receipts, no tv revenue, extremely limited radio revenue, they have to do it a little at a time. A lot of their own funds get put into the venture as a labour of love.

I saw some other ignorance posted here. Village is no different than Arnett as far as the nature of the political affiliation of its parent constituency. I think the reason other teams fared better with the sponsorship is that some of the negotiators are at once top govt officials and top club officials. The politics with Village might be due to the Parish Council. The other thing is that the MP for the constituency, a very loyal constituency, is a back bencher in parliament. Do you understand what that means and the limited influence he has on his own as compared to the MPs for some of the other places that have teams that are getting big sponsorships?

As for getting govt help, govt is building Greenfield nearby with a loan from China. Do you think they are going to do anything significantin Falmouth areaafter that? Karl, they have broken ground for the same police station about four different times in the same place. So do you think the govt is going to spend any money on anything to benefit Village? The best return on money is to fix up Elleston Wakeland. It is right there in the community. Parking, though informal, is right there. Police are right there. Hospital is right there. Population can walk to games. etc, etc, etc.

Parish Council and some in Central govt say that a deed restriction or something similar is in the way of leasing the property and that the property is for public use. I have written elsewhere before on how to allow Village's investment in bettering the place, allow them to have primary use of half of the premises most of the time, have a separate adjacent field on the grounds for the public to use, have Village make the primary secured field available for public functions, with safeguards, at times when Village is not using the field, without subjecting the field or Village

[Westman]

RE: In defense of Village United. HOLD UP BOSS, Let's be fair!

Dammit man! You know things are bad when you start to mek Mosiah seem reasonable and lucid. This bound to start another war to rahtid.

[Karl]

RE: In defense of Village United. HOLD UP BOSS, Let's be fair!

Yuh gwaan!

...an yuh dun kno yuh large!

[Westman]

RE: In defense of Village United. HOLD UP BOSS, Let's be fair!

Jeezam Karl. Where did I say that? Your inferences are illogical. I did not say the FA should not be an advocate. The FA cannot get so immersed in the business of Village to the point that the advocacy seems more for Village than for the other teams.

Tell me, when the Tampa Bay Bucs were threatening to leave Tampa, did Mr Tagliabue get involved and advocate for the Bucs with Tampa? Did he tell them to build the bucs new facilities? Did he warn Tampa that the Bucs could leave?

He did say how well the NFL enjoyed having a presence in Tampa, etc, etc. That is what the FA president has to do.

Lin Mc might be in a slightly different position because Village could be lost to another fed. But he cant go too far with his advocacy.

[OJ]

RE: In defense of Village United. HOLD UP BOSS, Let's be fair!

The problem I have with Karl is that he paints everyone with the same brush. He makes it seems that if you did not get the big sponsorship then you are inept. He disregards the fact that having the minister of finance in your corner is a strtegic advantage. He makes it seems everyone is dumb and he is smart. Anyway I need a contact at village regarding their youth program.

[Karl]

RE: In defense of Village United. HOLD UP BOSS, Let's be fair!

Well OJ, I am sorry you feel that way.I am not smart...I just try to do my best. (Well sometimes )

I believe in what I am saying and I say it with confidence. Even when I amnot sure aboutwhat I am saying... I confidently put in my saying, "I think", "I believe" or some such thing. I do notice many here ignore those expressions of uncertainty and then go on to proclaim with annoyance that I said.

Regarding the matter of our clubs and Village is no exception...I believe with every fibre of my being that they are poorly managed.


Itcouldbe that I am expecting too much...but, I have this...perhapstoo great a faith/belief in my Jamaican brothers and sisters that I expect 'great things'. That great expectation,I am sure, is reflected in my posts.

My believing that I am smarter than others forget about it. I have so many 'beliefs that I live by...one is, -"There are no fools". Another is,- "He who things/believes the other man isafool, is the fool"!I am like Jawge in one respect, "I am the eternal learner".

Assasin, you andsome others think it was wrong of the few clubs to ink a deal with C&W. I do not agree. I see no wrong. Even if as you claim to know and or believe and you may beright that persons with a common thread - PNP supporters - got together and worked on those clubs behalf, I see no wrong. As I said, I think any other interest group has the same opportunity.

Regarding the progress our clubs have made during the time I have been in football - 1968 to present. I say something is wrong...and, it must be the managers not doing well. My thinking is simple if they were great, the clubs would not be only this far along the road to TOP OF THE WORLD! You do not believe it! Westman does not believe it! Assasin does not believe it! Fine! My being stupid or no is not tied to whether or not I think as you do...or asWestman or as Assasin. Neither does your brilliance hinge on whether or not you believe as I do.

It is a discussion board. We have different views. Why get upset? We are different! I am not upset with you...Westman or Assasin. You guys show me where you differ...your differing views. I show you where I differ...a nuh nutten!