Javon took it out too soon

[Don1]

I don't understand you guys. You guys are upset about him not medalling. In order to medal he would have had to have run faster than he ran that leg while at the same time being more conservative so goes your argument. Willi the Briton didnt beat Francis. He (Francis) received the Baton way behind all the contenders

I don't think we should be upset at all...the boy is a lion and tried his best.. as he saw it at the time

However in 20/20 hindsight his tactic of going to the front that early can be questioned. The argument that he ran the fastest leg and so there was no tactical failing is not sound imo. It assumes that his time on that leg was the best he could do...we don't know that

In hindsight (again) when he made that move he COULD have just joined the front just behind Merritt...just keep up with him and conserve his energy for 20-30 meters...then make another big move to the line from ~90 meters out depending on when others made a move. He's at his best when chasing
That tactic COULD have achieved a medal...hypothetically

But race nuh run inna Rum Bar...

Cyaan complain wid nutten bout dat deh yute doh...Real LION dat

[Rudi]

Can't agree. My assumptions are based on the following: He ran the best he has ever run, he ran the best anyone in the 4x400 ran and they were'nt close to his time and finally at 21 he equalled the fastest time any Jamaican has run in that race. To say he could have run faster if he had done this or that is not a credible argument. What I think is misleading is the way the race ended. What is not being properly factored is the position he was in when he received the baton, the time he did and the times that those in front of him did. The argument against his race essentially says : he could have medalled had he run slower. I don't think so.

[Islandman]

...then make another big move to the line from ~90 meters out depending on when others made a move. That COULD have achieved a medal

But we don't know that either, do we . I don't see a strong case for saying he would have run faster although the blow-by-blow visual of him going out and fading made it APPEAR like he did the wrong thing.

Lets take for example the 400m flat Womens final (not the relay). Suppose Felix had run the exact race and time that she ran going out hard and faster than she ever has, but somehow Miller found a way to beat her. Would we then conclude that Felix did the wrong thing to go out that fast over the first 200m simply because she lost? How do we know that if she ran differently she would have run faster? She ran faster than she has ever run, thats enough for me to say she did the right thing until other evidence is provided , like she ran much faster doing something else.

My point is that there is no REAL information to suggest that Javon went out too fast and ran slower as a result. Just "feel say" based on the final placings.

[Rudi]

People a talk say him coulda run faster like say him pull a Usain and ease up at the finish line.

[Sir X]

He got the batton in 5th with a 10 to 15 meter gap and people says he lost a medal or the oppourtunity to push Merrit,lol...if he didnt make that move that would mean waiting the last 200m to kick,who says anyone kick would be weaker given that they would have conserved energy .Merrit worked his ass off for that Gold, so did the top 3 for their medals because of Donks,he made that race.If he ran it any other way he just might have ended up 5th.

Good race Donkey man.

[Mosiah]

The argument that he ran the fastest leg and so there was no tactical failing is not sound imo. It assumes that his time on that leg was the best he could do...we don't know that

In hindsight (again) when he made that move he COULD have just joined the front just behind Merritt...just keep up with him and conserve his energy for 20-30 meters...then make another big move to the line from ~90 meters out depending on when others made a move. He's at his best when chasing
That tactic COULD have achieved a medal...hypothetically

You are perfectly right!

Who else runs the 400 like that? Did Javon just demonstrate to the world how to run this race? Was that how Alyson Felix ran it when she needed to help her team win the relay, at least up to her leg?

I'm saying had Donkeyman not gone out so hard, expending all of his energy in the first 200 meters, it is not inconceivable that he would have been able to run an even lower split and hold out for a medal.

Certainly, his thinking could not have been "gold or nothing!"

As for blaming the third leg runner - maybe him just no good! How did his split time compare to his other races?

As for these split times, I fail to see why we give them so much credence. When does the clock start for each runner? Do they all run 400 meters? Do we account for when they have to be running in and out of other runners in the exchange zone?! I think it's almost a useless stat. Did it matter that Donkeyman ran a great split or a sensible split?

[Don1]

It is all hypothetical...we just don't know these variables and can only speculate:

That his race tactic was optimal

That the time he ran was his best possible in that situation

That another tactical approach could have resulted in a medal

But we do know the boy is at his best when chasing. And we know he needed only 2/100th of a second improvement to medal.

Put that together and it creates a reasonable argument that a different tactical approach could have resulted in a medal

Emphasis on the COULD. But I have zero complaint

[Mosiah]

...he could have medalled had he run slower. I don't think so.

Slower at the start and faster in the end - overall faster?

[Islandman]

Who else runs the 400 like that? Was that how Alyson Felix ran it

But thats how she ran the flat 400m, no?


Regarding split times, I agree with you that in a sprint relay they are not worth very much. In a 4x400m relay or longer though, especially after they have got the stagger out of the way, they are credible.

[Mosiah]

Suppose Felix had run the exact race and time that she ran going out hard and faster than she ever has, but somehow Miller found a way to beat her. Would we then conclude that Felix did the wrong thing to go out that fast over the first 200m simply because she lost? How do we know that if she ran differently she would have run faster? She ran faster than she has ever run, thats enough for me to say she did the right thing until other evidence is provided , like she ran much faster doing something else.

Did Felix run like that, going out tremendously hard in the first half of the race?

Did she not set an astounding split time? (Since we love to talk about that!)

[Islandman]

In the flat 400m, YES! You never watch it?

[Don1]

Yes I don't put much stock in split times...ALL the leg distances vary so the stat is relatively useless for analytical purposes....but it makes for great yappin

What's most important imo is optimal race management to achieve the best result

[Mosiah]

"Ohuruogu, meanwhile, wasn’t too despondent despite the final not going her way. After expending so much energy trying to compete with Felix on the back straight she had nothing left for her traditional flying finish."

[Mosiah]

I don't agree. She never went breakneck speed in the early part of that race. Donkeyman ran 2 100m races, ripping up di people dem chevron!

[Islandman]

Ok mek me done unno now......

2013 World Championships 4x400m final leg. Who is that crazy guy running past everyone on the backstretch? Why him don't conserve him energy and tuck in? EEEDiot tactics dat don't?

Except this time he won a silver medal and so it was brilliant.....

https://youtu.be/SuEdsqa1RDg?t=214