Carifta Games (T&F) Post-Mortem

[Historian]

It is time now that the organizers of the Carifta Games face the stark reality. The Caribbean region is small and have very limited resources to spend. Firstly, they need to dispense with the idea of rotating the venues between these smaller countries where T&F is not popular. The event should be restricted to the larger countries where you can at least get a half full stadium. They should also restrict the number of athletes in a team to a per ratio based on population size - maybe (?). It makes no sense for a larger country like Jamaica sending a team of 80-odd athletes to compete against a small country like Martinique. The event started out as a festival but evolved into a more competitive competition over the years. I saw Bahamas running their mouth about beating Jamaica, but the reality is, none of these islands will ever beat Jamaica in medal count or the quality of the medals, unless there is some equitable restrictions put in place. It is a good event to get our first time young athletes competition overseas, but we can send a F or G team and still dominate.

Jangle, I’m taking the conversation up here because you have, as usual, initiated a possible fruitful discussion with your interesting and sensible points, and it would be useful to allow others to respond. The original Carifta 2014 thread below had started to become cluttered, in addition to no longer being really relevant to the changing scope of the conversation.

I just want to make four broad points, and hopefully other track and field lovers here will add their voices to this post-mortem of Carifta 2014.

1. Short of admitting the three Spanish-speaking islands (Cuba, the Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico), what else can the Carifta organizers do to improve the performance standards in this region? We already have the Central American and Caribbean (CAC) Games for BOTH juniors and seniors. We also have the even bigger Pan-American Games (involving all of the Americas) for BOTH juniors and seniors.

2. If the Bahamas with a population of just over 330,000 people can send 81 athletes in 2014 and a full complement of 70 in 2012 and previous years (under the old maximum allowable quotas), what excuse do countries with larger populations (like Guyana, Martinique and Trinidad & Tobago) have?

Incidentally, the Bahamas has won the Carifta Games on four occasions, and Bermuda once (1975).

3. I agree that the Carifta Games should probably be restricted to the bigger and more track and field-friendly countries, and for the reason you mentioned. The one drawback, of course, might be the financial difficulty of these countries where the love for track and field is greatest -- most obviously Jamaica, Trinidad & Tobago and the Bahamas -- holding the Games every three or four years.

4. Remember that there are quality athletes from other territories as well; for example, when was the last time that a Jamaican athlete won the Austin Sealy Award? Also, look at what happened to Jamaica in the short sprints over the past two years (2012 and 2013).

You might want to closely check out first-rate athletes like Guyana’s Kadecia Baird and Guadeloupe’s Wilhem Belocian (among others). Also, think of our KC friend from Anguilla who was, unfortunately, absent from this year’s Carifta Games after defeating our elite sprinters at Carifta 2013. Think also of those 400-meter stalwarts from Trinidad & Tobago.

[Karl]

Good chat, sah!
...just imagine if the Olympic Games or the World Championships had gone down that Jangle suggested route?

--- btw - Please post a link to the regulations governing qualification for participation in the Carifta Games.

[Historian]

Carifta Qualification

Good chat, sah!
...just imagine if the Olympic Games or the World Championships had gone down that Jangle suggested route?

--- btw - Please post a link to the regulations governing qualification for participation in the Carifta Games.

Thanks, Karl.

I will try and find a link if I get a chance later today. However, generally speaking, as far as I’m aware each Carifta Games member (that is, the English, French and Dutch territories) establishes its own criteria for qualification and team selection. I am pretty sure I’m correct in this regard.

As far as team size is concerned, the policy was changed at last year’s Carifta Games. After years of lobbying, Jamaica succeeded in having the Games organizers increase the limit of participating athletes from 70 to 80.

[Sir X]

I will take it furter than Jangle,what I witnessed in martinique was a massacre ,a human rights abuse, i saw in every event , Jamaica 1st and 2nd , the odd bronze was greeted with europhia by the vanquished.Be it Jamaica recieving Bronze or they recieving it.

It should it be scrapped, we have other tournaments the cac and pan am games.Penn relays is days apart from this waste which compounds injuries to team Jamaica.Penn holds more value in that scholarships are on show there,the commercialization of it being a USA vs JA event and of course , Jamaicans in the states support it.


To me it only reinforces red eye and envy from these (small islands ) by having their asses wipped annually, scrap carifta!

[Sir X]

I forgot to add the stadiums was empty,it seems journalist and officials make up the spectators.

[Historian]

Very Insightful Views, Mr. X

So, because Jamaica has consecutively won every Carifta Games (track and field) since 1985, and because in recent times the margin of victory is huge, does that mean that this regional meet should be scrapped?

What about the athletes from the other territories who have benefitted tremendously from the exposure? Do they not count??! You would be surprised at the tremendous number of Caribbean-born athletes who have benefitted from their teen years in Carifta. And I say “Caribbean-born” because some of them have brought fame to other countries. Guadeloupe-born Christine Arron of France, who won the 1992 Carifta Games Under-20 Girls’ 100-meter gold medal comes immediately to mind.

There is a reason why my pseudonym is “Historian”! The past cannot/ should not ever be ignored! The fact is that save for Bermuda in 2004 and a few other times, Jamaica has never been this overwhelmingly dominant in Carifta Games track and field. Like I pointed out above, the 2012 and 2013 Carifta Games (just to cite two examples) were highlighted by non-Jamaican athletes sweeping our cherished sprint events.

Don’t delude yourself into thinking that because we won a mammoth 88 medals in 2014, this will always happen! There are many, many more Machel Cedenios and Rennie Quows and Jehue Gordons and Kelly-Ann Baptistes and Zharnel Hughes and Kadecia Bairds and Anthonnique Strachans and Shaunae Millers and Debbie Fergusons and Delano Williams and Wilhem Belocian to be unearthed. Do not underrate the region’s treasures!!

Austin Sealy and his colleagues were visionary in their formation of the Carifta Games track and field meet. It would be extremely unfortunate if Jamaica, in its arrogance, as we so successfully did with the 1958 West Indies Federation, were to destroy this commendable vision of regional cooperation.

I will take it furter than Jangle,what I witnessed in martinique was a massacre ,a human rights abuse, i saw in every event , Jamaica 1st and 2nd , the odd bronze was greeted with europhia by the vanquished.Be it Jamaica recieving Bronze or they recieving it.

It should it be scrapped, we have other tournaments the cac and pan am games.Penn relays is days apart from this waste which compounds injuries to team Jamaica.Penn holds more value in that scholarships are on show there,the commercialization of it being a USA vs JA event and of course , Jamaicans in the states support it.


To me it only reinforces red eye and envy from these (small islands ) by having their asses wipped annually, scrap carifta!

[Sir X]

The other athletes from these small Islands have the cac and pan am games like we do.It has served its purpose in the past and we have outgrown it, as a historian you should know ,nothing last forever,especially if it has passed its usefulness.

All those small island athletes you mentioned have those avenues I listed above.

Reason to dump it.

* Empty stadiums
* Astronomical cost
* Injuries to our athletes with Penn days apart.
* Total dominace

What do we get out of it,the only way we should partake in it,is if they cover our fees.

Jamaica has outgrown it and I dare say so have these small Islands ...waste!

[Historian]

My Closing Comments

Reason to dump it.

* Empty stadiums
* Astronomical cost
* Injuries to our athletes with Penn days apart.
* Total dominace

What do we get out of it,the only way we should partake in it,is if they cover our fees.

Jamaica has outgrown it and I dare say so have these small Islands ...waste!

X, other posters here have used the barroom metaphor to describe discussions on this forum. While I respect their perception, I do not share this view, which is why I rarely get bogged down in multiple posts in any thread.

With this purely personal attitude in mind, I will respond to your comments with these five simple questions:

1. Outside of the final night of Boys & Girls Champs, and the Reggae Boyz qualifying games of 1997 and 1998, when has Jamaica’s National Stadium been filled in recent times?

2. Do you think that, comparing the size of our National Stadium with other stadiums where Carifta Games are held, we would see a larger turnout in Jamaica? (Check closely the size of the crowd for our upcoming Jamaica Invitational 2014, which features important events like the 200-meter clash between Shelly-Ann Fraser and Allyson Felix.)

3. Do you realize that Jamaicans show much greater interest in attending track and field events when they are held OUTSIDE of Jamaica, once they involve Jamaican athletes? This is a fact, my friend, and it is to a great extent an indication of our natural patriotism and proud nationalism.

4. Have you ever taken the time to look at the ridiculously small numbers of spectators in the stadiums wherever the IAAF World Championships (not only Moscow 2013), the Commonwealth Games, the Pan-Am Games, the CAC Games, the IAAF World Junior Championships, and the IAAF World Youth Championships are held?

5. Have you ever taken the time to look at the numbers of spectators in the stadiums at European Grand Prix and Golden League meets?

Finally, I will not comment on your obvious view that, because Jamaica has dominated the Carifta Games in recent times and because of other Jamaica-related issues, the Carifta Games should be scrapped. Interestingly, you did not suggest that Jamaica withdraw itself from participating; you suggested that a major regional be abandoned!

This is the type of arrogance that has helped to ensure that Jamaica has FEW friends in the Caribbean region! (Also, look again at my reference to the failed 1958 West Indies Federation.)

[Sir X]

1) The question is irrelevant because the focus is on T&F and overseas cost,we bear our cost and it contributes to our development at home ,and these cost even at home are astronomical,and we do see benefits.

2) Again the focus is on carifta an overseas event with astronomical cost,why compare it to our local development meets.

3) Jamaicans show interest in T&F meets where they see value in it ,Carifta is not one of them,athletes,fans and administrators have been mumbling about the value of carifta given the proximity to Penns and that is a fact.It goes back to my point of value.


4) Be it as it may, the ridiculous low numbers in those other meets,its no excuse for us not to do the prudent thing and scrap the most ridiculous one with no value,Carifta.

5) Again thats value,we get paid to play on the european circuit dont we ?

Arrogance has a fine line between prudence and confidence.It is what it is.