Carrie Russell and men's 4*4

[Stonigut]

Looks like Carri's great start and gold medal in the relay has jumped her confidence up a bit, that 11.01 she ran in Poland looked like she could easily have gone under 11.00 as she eased down at the end.

Let's see if she can repeat that kind of time again and show competitive in a big 100 race. Natasha Morrison also came in with a promising 11.19, we really need to see some other girls stepping up, levy and Calvert just continue to show flashes without any real bread and butter performances.

Very interested in the high variability in the splits for the men's 4*4 in Moscow when all runners were capable of mid 45's on a flat 400, McDonald opened with 46 which for a start leg seemed he did not even approach his best run but still not too far behind his best, Steele with 44.3 was incredible, Johnson with 45 plus faded badly and ran just about what he is capable of on a flat 400, so it seems we probably dropped at least .7 seconds there and then Francis running 44.05 definitely exceeded his best and our expectation of what he could do.

[Karl]

46 change on the lead-off leg if I am not mistaken is equivalent to 45.00 change flat.

The lead-off leg of both the 4x1 and 4x4 splits will appear sub-par to those not following in-depth on relays.

btw - Please point me to where you found the splits? I could not find them and called off my search.

[Stonigut]

Karl you are killing me here!
As Don man says take it with a smile.

Here are the stats from Willi's wicked site, where some do gif's and don't even blink an eye! Hope I don't get beaten up on that one.

Final (Aug 16)
1, USA 2:58.71 (lane 5) David Verburg 45.0, Tony McQuay 44.1, Arman Hall 44.87, LaShawn Merritt 44.77
2, JAM 2:59.88 (4) Rusheen McDonald 46.0, Edino Steele 44.3, Omar Johnson 45.53, Javon Francis 44.05
3, RUS 2:59.90 (6) Maksim Dyldin 45.4, Lev Mosin 44.8, Sergey Petukhov 45.05, Vladimir Krasnov 44.67
4, GBR 3:00.88 (7) Conrad Williams 45.3, Martyn Rooney 44.5, Michael Bingham 45.65, Nigel Levine 45.35
5, BEL 3:01.02 (1) Jonathan Borlée 45.50, Kevin Borlée 44.04, Dylan Borlée 45.74, Will Oyowe 45.74
6, TRI 3:01.74 (3) Rennie Quow 45.6, Lalonde Gordon 45.3, Jehue Gordon 45.12, Jarrin Solomon 45.74
7, BRA 3:02.19 (2) Pedro Luiz de Oliveira 45.9, Wagner Cardoso 45.2, Anderson Henriques 45.32, Hugo de Sousa 45.73
8, AUS 3:02.26 (8) Steven Solomon 45.6, Alexander Beck 45.8, Craig Burns 45.46, Tristan Thomas 45.36
First Round (Aug 15)
Heat 1
1, JAM 3:00.41 (5) Rusheen McDonald 45.6e, Javere Bell 45.1e, Edino Steele 45.14, Javon Francis 44.62
2, GBR 3:00.50 (2) Conrad Williams 45.4, Michael Bingham 45.6, Jamie Bowie 44.64, Martyn Rooney 44.77
3, VEN 3:02.04 (6) Arturo Ramírez 46.0e, Alberto Aguilar 45.4e, José Meléndez 45.26, Freddy Mezones 45.38
4, JPN 3:02.43 (7) Kengo Yamazaki 46.1e, Yuzo Kanemaru 45.6e, Hideyuki Hirose 44.94, Hiroyuki Nakano 45.82
5, DOM 3:03.61 (8) Arismendy Peguero 46.5e, Gustavo Cuesta 46.0e, Yon Soriano 46.12, Luguelín Santos 44.99
6, ESP 3:04.07 (3) Roberto Briones 46.5e, Samuel García 45.2e, Mark Ujakpor 45.74, Pau Fradera 46.62
7, NGR 3:04.52 (1) Noah Akwu 46.00, Abiola Onakoya 46.02, Tobi Ogunmola 46.24, Isah Salihu 46.26
8, BOT 3:05.74 (4) Pako Seribe 47.1e, Obakeng Ngwigwa 46.2e, Isaac Makwala 46.15, Thapelo Ketlogetswe 46.27

I hear your longest leg theory and all that but the battam line is; McDonald has the slowest 400 split of all 1st leg runners in the final, it is even significantly slower than his own 1st leg split in the heat!!!!

[Karl]

Bears out my point.
Proves my Shady Pines ole brain recalls some things learnt loooooonnnng ago!.

How they time the splits always has that apparently slow times. Have you ever wondered why Carter is consistently being times as running 10 change on his starting leg?

e.g.
Re: ¶2012 OG: m4x100–Jamaica 36.84 WR !!! [with splits]


Olympics - 2012 4 x 1

Side-by-side splits (as with all 4x1 splits, few grains of salt required=how timed)

Jamaica USA
Carter 10.1 Kimmons 10.2
Frater 8.9 Gatlin 8.9
Blake 9.0 Gay 9.0
Bolt 8.8 Bailey 8.9

-----------

It is note taking a close look on the relay split for Carter and Simmons. The times were slower than their SB flat time. Both guys were high 9.00+ through - Low 10. 00 change on the flat 100M in the regular season. ...and when compared to times being run by their teammates on the other legs ...those other guys had relay splits that knocked 0.05 through 0.10sec or thereabouts off their flat SBs.

Note: Carter's time in the 100M final was 9.95sec. ...and his time on that starting leg was a split of 10.10 sec.

USA World Record Women Olympic run -
Women’s 4x100m Relay Splits:

• Madison 11.12
• Felix 9.97
• Knight 10.33
• Jeter 9.70

Madison who ran away from our Shelly-Ann Fraser-Pryce is timed at 11.12 sec. Her time during those Olympics 100M final was 10.85sec. The split on the relay would suggest to those not familiar with that type split timing that she ran slower than her flat race. The truth is she ran faster on that relay leg...yet her split on her start leg is 11.12.

------------

400M Men

As I said - The same 'dumbing down' of time on the first leg occurs in the 4 x 400M (=men and women).

Those starting men with splits in the mid-45.00 range if they traveled at the same pace in a 400M flat they would be timed mid-44 sec. ...those timed in mid-46 would on the 400M flat be timed at mid-45...and so on.

[Stonigut]

It is accepted that the first leg is the longest and also the toughest as the start is from the blocks, however what is clearly an issue is still his 46 flat being the slowest first leg and his final leg is slower than his heat leg and he is the only one of the four that did not run the flat 400. If you check the times of the other first leg runners on the flat four it is equivalent to the same for our first leg runner, it not like they were all 44 plus runners on the flat event, so my bottom line is the first leg and third leg should have been much better.

[Mosiah]

It is accepted that the first leg is the longest and also the toughest as the start is from the blocks...

Really?

Any leg can be any distance...almost!

I remember when St. Mary's High with Jacqueline Pusey and another good runner would win the 4x100 because those two girls would run maybe 130m each, leaving...you figure it out... the rest for the other two ordinary runners.

Pusey ran the second leg and she started her run off way before the box.

And that is reason No. 17 why I hate this obsession about split times!

[Willi]

I agree, the exchange zone can make for early or late change.

Splits in the mile relay are taken when the Baton passes 400m, not when runners exchange. Thus a 46 split is poor by any measure.

[Stonigut]

So Willi what. You think was going on with Rusheen, no flat 4 and he runs the final slower than his heats leg, is that just a little stage fright and poor breathing or just not competition fit?-

[Karl]

I have not reviewed the race recently...and have not checked Rusheen's legs but it could be 'type timing used'?

Was he timed as ending his races at the exact same point i.e. start/beginning of the 2nd leg runner's exchange lane marker?

If it was however timed at moment he handed over the baton then he could have even run 400M faster the 2nd time around and yet have a slower split...right? ...as in such a case he could have handed over the baton after running further distance on the 2nd go-round and also at a time when he was 'dying fast'...no????

Just imagine on this scenario - 1st go-round: He ran 400M + less than a stride (however in exchange zone)...and on 2nd go-round he handed over the baton 409M + (but within the exchange zone)????

[Stonigut]

Excellent discussion Karl, this has definitely opened my eyes a little more on the actual changeovers for the 4*400, I have run 4*100's but not4*4.

My rough assessment from the race is that Rusheen ran at least 404 meters, then Steele ran about 394 which explains his fast time but he does not really make up a lot of ground position wise, then Johnson runs what seems to be 398 as he starts behind the 400 line by at least two meters but gives to javon about three meters short of the line, so Avon actually runs the second longest leg of about 403 metres, just looking at it roughly. What do you think, take a look at the race.

[Karl]

Excellent discussion Karl, this has definitely opened my eyes a little more on the actual changeovers for the 4*400, I have run 4*100's but not4*4.

My rough assessment from the race is that Rusheen ran at least 404 meters, then Steele ran about 394 which explains his fast time but he does not really make up a lot of ground position wise, then Johnson runs what seems to be 398 as he starts behind the 400 line by at least two meters but gives to javon about three meters short of the line, so Avon actually runs the second longest leg of about 403 metres, just looking at it roughly. What do you think, take a look at the race.

Shall take a look...and report!

Aside: Just to add that all the men ran very well...just that the youngest youth came in without fear (Young bud nuh kno fear=too inexperienced to even know whom or what to fear...) and blew away 3 of the 4 runners who received the baton before him.

...and now he knows he can 'blow away' many of the world's best, Lord help them when next he gets the stick! ...the birth of a relay monster?

[Stonigut]

Not just young bud, look at what he says, he sets a goal fir himsekf, he wants a medal, he also tells team that he needs to be in the pack, not necessarily top three just close and he sets his iwn goal and agenda, rounding three runners on the backstretch, these are not buckup events this is a mind focused on achievement and goal setting. Look at the ronaldo secrets article.

[Jangle]

Zurich meet today:

Wind:+0.5
RANK ATHLETE NATION RESULT REACTION TIME
1 RUSSELL Carrie JAM 10.98 PB 0.156
2 ANDERSON Alexandria USA 11.02 0.145
3 SAILER Verena GER 11.21 0.149
4 STEWART Kerron JAM 11.28 0.163
5 MORRISON Natasha JAM 11.33 0.189
6 POHREBNYAK Nataliya UKR 11.34 0.129
7 ASHER-SMITH Dina GBR 11.43 0.151
8 LOFAMAKANDA PINTO Tatjana GER 11.60 0.115
9 WEIT Inna GER 11.73 0.161

[Stonigut]

Yuzeet! Very nice, I am happy for her, seemed lie she had everything but no results. Now everything paying off. Love everything bout her running style.

[Willi]

Dunno, but that is a **** poor split!