Francis makes a very compelling case ...DON 1 ,SICCKO & KARL

[Jangle]

But Karl, it IS in the nations interest to allow Franno, Mills and the other coaches of OUR professional athletes to refuse joining the national camp if THEY see it fit. The question is, what is the purpose of a MANDATORY camp prior to the games?

[Don1]

JAAA and Jamaica is very fortunate that track is an individual and not a team sport and also that Jamaicans have overwhelming passion & smarts for it and probably a genetic predisposition to excel in sprinting

The JAAA is dysfunctional and can't be said to be a major reason for our success in track.... ISSA & the 100 year Champs tradition of our high schools are much bigger drivers for success... the JAAA just happens to be the accredited body through which the athletes pass to get to world level events...Olympics, World Champs etc. They sit on top of the pyramid and control access from that perch... access not performance

If track was a team oriented sport which required close organizational coordination and professionalism ...our success level might be closer to that of football

All the same when Jamaica is on the world stage we don't need to see petulant public displays from "big figures" dragging our name thru the mud...

[Sir X]

Jaaa has admitted its old way of doing things has died but talking and doing are too different things as it pertains,isnt the jaaa a political org with egos and interest,interest we dont have a clue about except to be amatuership

[Karl]

But Karl, it IS in the nations interest to allow Franno, Mills and the other coaches of OUR professional athletes to refuse joining the national camp if THEY see it fit. The question is, what is the purpose of a MANDATORY camp prior to the games?

1 piece of inaccurate news is "coaches cannot oversee their charges".
That is just not true.

If the information being used as basis for no national camp or national teams residing together is false...then the conclusions will be false.

Certainly we have to start from the premise of, why national teams?
If we do not need national teams at these meets then by all means arrange meets where every athlete turns up to a 'camp' with the individual coach.

Francis just brings me back to a call for his athletes to find their own World meets.

They either want to compete for Jamaica or for themselves and Jamaica or for themselves. If it is for themselves only then TEAM Jamaica does not need them.

[Sickko]

I have not read this article as I am sure it does not contain any new information from Francis that we have not heard from the last three or four years.

My personal opinion is that if a news paper is seeking to get an opinion on the camps then Stephen Francis is NOT qualified sine he has categorically stated that he is not interested in any national coaching positions as he is not been paid to coach the Jamaica team but his own athletes whether they run for Jamaica or another country....and that is his right and responsibility to those who employ him.

The record shows that Francis has been offered access to the Jamaica camps and access to his athletes there but he has refused as he has athletes from other countries as well

So does Mills who was the national head coach for years even when he had Kim Collins and others

I think camps are important for a number of reasons and the excuses we have from Francis are flimsy and only show him to be anti-team (groan- Karls word).

If we recall three of his athletes actually left his camp and went to the Jamaica camp in Nuremberg while those who maybe have not learned to think for themselves yet stayed with him- but dont coat anyone- LOL!

Francis said the camp in Nuremberg did not have starting blocks or hurdles hence was not sufficient yet we saw photos on Face Book of several dozen starting blocks and piles and piles of hurdles.

It is getting to be too much now and as one of the JAAA reps said in the meeting at Observer on Monday, dont ask about the JAAA's relationship with Francis, as about Francis' relationship with the JAAA and Jamaica.

[Sickko]

Sorry had posted it at the wrong place...

I have not read this article as I am sure it does not contain any new information from Francis that we have not heard from the last three or four years.

My personal opinion is that if a news paper is seeking to get an opinion on the camps then Stephen Francis is NOT qualified sine he has categorically stated that he is not interested in any national coaching positions as he is not been paid to coach the Jamaica team but his own athletes whether they run for Jamaica or another country....and that is his right and responsibility to those who employ him.

The record shows that Francis has been offered access to the Jamaica camps and access to his athletes there but he has refused as he has athletes from other countries as well

So does Mills who was the national head coach for years even when he had Kim Collins and others

I think camps are important for a number of reasons and the excuses we have from Francis are flimsy and only show him to be anti-team (groan- Karls word).

If we recall three of his athletes actually left his camp and went to the Jamaica camp in Nuremberg while those who maybe have not learned to think for themselves yet stayed with him- but dont coat anyone- LOL!

Francis said the camp in Nuremberg did not have starting blocks or hurdles hence was not sufficient yet we saw photos on Face Book of several dozen starting blocks and piles and piles of hurdles.

It is getting to be too much now and as one of the JAAA reps said in the meeting at Observer on Monday, dont ask about the JAAA's relationship with Francis, as about Francis' relationship with the JAAA and Jamaica.

[Karl]

Cannot disagree...particularly as I wrote many articles on the T&F site back in the days praising the teachers i.e. ISSA for our successes.

...but it should not be forgotten that the international meets and selection of athletes to represent Jamaica runs through the JAAA and
its successor JAAA .

btw - A footnote: As far as I know the first international age-group (ISSA organised) meet were those against Trinidad in 1965. The following year ISSA sent a 'schools' team' to Barbados and Trinadad.

99.99% of the athletes in the Stephen Francis camp 'grew' through Champs and were introduced to international competition by selection of the JAAA to national teams.

...and the fame that the athletes gain is burnished by representing JAMAICA. It is not a stretch to say if not for representing JAMAICA these athletes would have had to look elsewhere for the money they now make. ...yet Francis would have us believe that representing JAMAICA is secondary.

So now Francis and his followers wish JAMAICA to not work with him and his charges...but wishes a compromise that has MVP getting 99.999% of what it wishes and that JAMAICA receive 00.001% Some compromise

[Karl]

Damn...we are on the same page!

[Sickko]

sigh!!!!

[Don1]

Francis is a professional coach...his remit is NOT Jamaica...but individual athletes from wherever they originate

He is entitled to that perspective as a professional....but we should be mindful not to follow him blindly just because he is a great coach....which is the blind loyalty I see from some.

There is a point where Francis' interest and Jamaica's may diverge

[Sir X]

If the JAAA tone is anything like yours , then my intial position still stands.

[Jangle]

Sickko, can you please list the necessities of a national camp and why does the organizers need a week.

[Jangle]

"99.99% of the athletes in the Stephen Francis camp 'grew' through Champs and were introduced to international competition by selection of the JAAA to national teams.

...and the fame that the athletes gain is burnished by representing JAMAICA. It is not a stretch to say if not for representing JAMAICA these athletes would have had to look elsewhere for the money they now make. ...yet Francis would have us believe that representing JAMAICA is secondary. "

Who gets the glory when these athletes win medals at WC and Olympics? While on the road to such glories, did/does the JAAA pay these athletes' rent or mortgages; buy food, send their kids to school; pay for their doctor bills; pay their coaches? How is it that the most successful country in the history of T&F, the USA, can have a voluntary camp for their athletes and little up-and-coming Jamaica wants to hold a hammer over their athletes' heads and demand that they attend an unnecessary camp? The JAAA is not paying any of these athletes' bills. I don't think it is Stephen Francis' nor any other professional coach's obligation to bow to the JAAA, but it should be the other way around. This ego thing is a growing cancer within the JAAA.

[Sickko]

You cant be serious Jangle, I dont have that level of competence as I have never been involved in the preparation of such a camp.

Bear one thing in mind...a lot of top coaches like Brooks Johnson and Glen Mills does not travel with their athletes to early season meets in Europe and even MVP who might have athletes in svereal different places at one time, will not be there with all of them.

Point is how does these athletes get through these meets and even run fast and set PBs etc...they have their programmes that are written by their coaches and they are smart enough to follow them.

The JAAA has said time and again that Francis has been given access to his athletes in the Jamaican camps so he can work with them

As we saw both Frater and Carter who defied Francis and turned up at camp did not suffer from the hgih school coaches meddling with their training regime.

Francis wants people to think that when athletes go to camps, other coaches try to change what they do and mess them up but that is not so, not even in the Junior camps that happens.

There is a camp on at UWI right now for the team to World Youths and the national coaches asked the respective coaches to send programmes with their athletes and in some cases the coaches were allowed to attend the camp and put their athletes through their paces.

The discus/shot putter Fedrick Dacres was allowed to leave camp and go to Calabar to lift weights.

My point is we cant just take one man's word for it and run with it, no matter how great a coach he is.

[Peter R]

Unfortunately, the two (coaching and manner) go hand in hand... genius is not often tolerant.

In many organizations that administer sport, said administration often defer to the coach's wishes... it would appear in this case not. I would think the approach should be one where the JAAA should give him credit for his achievements, "if it ain't broke don't fix it" comes to mind.

The team could be required to meet as a group in some other setting, social or otherwise. I would not argue with his success... he did say compromise so it appears he's willing to find a middle ground, or at least move a little towards the JAAA's position.