Chris Gayle turn cheerleadah !

[Willi]

Dont believe the propaganda. That is not why we left. We left because we smelled a rat.

The whole a dem, as usual, was a try gang up on us. Look how dem mek dem people Premier and locate capital inna dem land. Steeeuuups.

The whole a dem combined dont mek Jamaica and dem a try gwaan like seh we equal. Real confederates dem.

Mek dem federate and then we can do bi-lateral agreement wid dem Fedarashon! LoL

[Islandman]

Well, unfortunately our record does not support your position. Sure we have won many Olympic medals and some individuals done exceptionally well in other areas, but as a society we have done worse than most of the other Caribbean islands, post independence.

Our leaders have failed miserably , I cannot think of ONE national leader post independence who I would give an A or B grade. I would take an Eric Williams or an Errol Barrow over most of the excuses for political leaders that we have put forward so far.

Then again, given our paranoia regarding the rest of the Caribbean it's probably a good thing we pulled out, or we would be blaming them for all our problems today.

I believe that done correctly, the WI Federation would have been a good thing, but as a region we don't do too much correctly anyway so it is unlikely that it would have worked. We can't even get CARICOM to work to rhatid.

[Islandman]

Baddaz the WICB has ALWAYS been petty and malicious. It matters not who the offending players have been or where they are from. How did that become a JA against the region issue just because its Gayle currently at war with them?

Sigh.

If a few isolated islands of former African slaves with an almost identical history cannot find a way to work through thier mostly petty differences, what chance is there for major African nations to ever unite and be a force? Looks hopeless.

[Don1]

Very good points.

Unfortunately the federation thing can't work if Jamaica continues to be a doormat for other countries to wipe their feet on.

No need to look further than what the Roti Ea... sarry ...Trinidad did with the energy issue a few years ago.... 100% selfishness. Left to me I would have started a decoupling from Caricom right after that.
... even if only to send a message
Jamaica has bent over backwards to facilitate Caricom (well the PNP has) but unfortunately in return we have reaped very little from small minded smaller islanders. It is time they had the prospect of a loss of our markets to contemplate.... that might make them more reasonable... and make Jamaica look to more fruitful avenues for development...like our ~$100B diaspora market.

Plus the argument that if Europe can unite in the EU...why can't the Caribbean? ... is spurious. Europeans are united mainly by 3 things-- Fear of Russian domination, fear of self annihilation thru war (usually propagated by Germany) and a need for relevance to match the US & China on the world stage.

The Caribbean has no similar internal or external concerns to drive unity as an imperative.

What is Jamaica to do? ... Look out for it's own interests as best it can.

Nations don't have permanent friends...only permanent interests.

[Islandman]

Don't disagree with that and I am not suggesting for a minute that Jamaica is totally to blame for the failures of regional integration. West Indian politicians and thier need for demi-god status were not and are still not ready for it.

No question that T&T has taken advantage of regional trade loopholes. It is totally in our interest to object to and take necessary action on issues like that.

Its the petty issues on all sides that annoy me more than anything else. We just can't seem to grow up and handle our differences through negotiation.

As far as we Jamaicans are concerned, do we really believe (which I don't) that as a group Caymanians don't like us , Bahamas don't like us, Barbados don't like us, T&T don't like us , etc, etc ? And all because of jealousy and envy, nothing because of what we are maybe doing or not doing? Isn't that just a bit arrogant on our part?

Rivalry is fine and can be fun and even productive if done positively, but far too often the inter-island thing becomes almost personal over even the most minor things.

[Willi]

Yuh can go deh go mek dem molest yuh at airport!

LoL

[Willi]

Europe have LAND borders, we dont.

Even the JLP has bent backwards. They may run up their mouths in opposition, but in Govt they toe the Caricom line.

I used to be federalist...how wrong I was. Run di RC fly from mi food! LoL

[Willi]

What are we doing? Giving them huge trade surpluses?

Jam is not faultless, but when you see their renkness exhibited you know is more than the errant ways of a few Jam ruffians that they are reacting to.

[Islandman]

So thier "renkness" is endemic and our "ruffness" is limited to just a few.

Typical. And of course many of them would claim the exact opposite.

[Baddaz]

i-man, it is not just the chris gayle issue... the handling of the chris gayle situation by the WIBC only serves to highlight what has been raised by many in the past...

in a more profound way, since we are an independent nation, why should we continue to be a part of this farce which continues to undermine our players and our people... we stand on our own in other sporting disciplines with relative success, why can't we commit to doing the same in cricket...

in fact, it can be argued that this wibc is stifling our cricketers because if we had our own team more of our cricketers would have more opportunities for earnings by being on the world stage for the ipl and other pro leagues to see them... our players future are too dependent on the whim of the wibc...

as an independent nation, we should not allow our future to be determined by others who are only serving their self interest... what about our self-interest...

[Islandman]

Baddaz, the reality is that the damage has pretty much already been done.

There is not much to salvage in WI cricket anymore so from a cricketing perspective I agree there is not much to lose by pulling out of the regional body. From a diplomatic standpoint there could be some payback but that is another issue.

I was taking a broader view of what might have been had the regional leaders played the game differently from the 60s. I am not talking political union, that opportunity has long past and national borders are not the walls of isolation they once were anyway. But for example, after 40 years of CARICOM we can't even have free movement of workers within the region? How can that make sense when our educational systems, language, cultures are so similar? We even still support a regional university. Instead we have countries making it MORE difficult to move around. That kind of thing is really where my frustration is.

[Baddaz]

ok, we can agree on the cricket part... and, i also agree with your perspective on the wider issue from the 60s... the CARICOM 'thing' is the way it is because as soon as there is an economic shift and one nation appears to be in an advantageous position, they decide they should be dictating policy... the relative economic strength of trinidad and barbados and their recent actions are prime examples... then there are the actions of the smaller islands, aligning with whomever they believe they will reap the greater benefit...

this political issue is for another thread... cricket mi seh...

btw, anybody have any idea on the crowd turnout at sabina park... i was hoping for a boycott...

i was in philly and was talking to some guyanese and they gave me insight how the guyanese organized a complete boycott if chanders or sarwan wasn't selected... sure as the sun, they both were selected...

[Willi]

Dem renkness is unofficial Govt policy!!!!

Yuh think is lie, go ask any sporting body rep from Jam and they will tell you they gang up on us!

We dont finger rape at our airports either!

[Willi]

LoL

We hardly even get test matches anymore.

This one is during the week!

ERven when we were economically strong they wanted to use number of islands (votes) to dominate us.

Mek dem all federate and come talk to we as equal. Tail caan wag dog!
Argument done!

[Willi]

As bad as we are, we NEVER obstructed free movement.

I have seen it with my own eyes. At the diplomatic level, Jamaica goes out of its way to include reps from other island and to look out for their interests in the UN etc. Hell, we dont even hold parties and not invite them. The dyam Bajans have secret parties all the time and no tell nubaddy. Is the upset Trinis come to us and tell us that!

Unno gwaan tink seh dem easy. Dem think different from us. Dem flex eff up in a way that would not be accepted in Jamaica.