RBSC

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Mills on Bolt

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    The real "harsh fact" is how many athletes of somewhere between Usain Bolt and Asafa Powell has Jamaica thrown away in say just since the DQ era, mid 70's to now.

    This is reinforcing Historian's "harsh facts" but also stands behind Mills as a phenomenal coach as it is one thing to have a prodigy but a whole nother thing to lead the prodigy to an incredible height of greatness, to facilitate that, to let the prodigy understand the gravity of what they are doing, keep them focused and to produce at the right time, just doing that for one athlete at the level that we have seen from Bolt is an incredible feat, we have bnever seen it before and Mills must have known all along and kept it under cover as he can see the times he was running in practice and pushed him even harder which we now know that Mills is not a rest on your laurels kind of coach.

    We know how critical we all were of some of Bolt's coaches before Mills and how it seemed at one point that we were not going to get anything from Bolt (I know this is not my imagination, I remember a lot of negativity after Athens).

    The truth is we have seen this time and time again in terms of talent, what happen to even one of the great Calabar 4*100 team that class 1 team that broke the 41 second barrier, man like Inches Palmer who was at least 6'1" or so who ran 10.5 in first year class one, again man like Evrod Samuels who ran 20.6 as a schoolboy, the Calabar 4*100 class two team with the phenomenal talent of Laing and that team that tore up the class two record if I remember rightly, and a ton more from Camperdown to St Jago to KC. Funnily I can remember any outstanding JC athletes, except one really great one at the turn of the 20th century. Just joking!!

    What happened at all those guy and girls, not to forget the girls, we lost an entire generation harvest.

    Again in keeping with either Don1 or Gamma's point this should not be a a "mano a mano" competition between Franno and Mills, however it is good to have a level of competitiveness between the camps.

    Michael Porter a Harvard Business school don wrote a book on competitive advantage in firms and another about countries developing a competitive advantage in industries like say Italy in the the Textiles business or Germany in the car industry, but it all starts at the firm level where competition between rivals fosters innovation, foster deeper investment in talent, resources, processes etc, we are seeing one of those unusual times, where we may if it develops right have a Franno and Mills schools of athletics in the future long beyond the life of these guys, this is where the competition needs to be that will be real legacy. Also another truth that Historian did not recognise in his harsh facts is the impact of GC Foster and UTech in developing local athletics. I remember as far back as 1986 when Cast with DJ was producing guys like Rohan Wade, ah think him did name, him was running 10.3 or so in them days after high scool days long gone, DJ was laying down the infrastructure from dem days. Please do not underestimate that.

    I share Historian's philosophy somewhat but where he sees pessimism I see optimism, we are at one hell of a tipping point, the pieces in the Jakan track and field arsenal have been building for 100 years piece by piece starting with schoolboy championships to the point now where everybody have champs, the Jamaican people are fully engaged even before all this "gold torrent", the talent ID system is fully engaged, the infra is partially laid down now between high school and developing pro athletes, now what we need is to build on what has been created by Mills and Franno they have amassed something of worth and have created for Jamaica an unbelievable competitive advantage in the sprints for the moment, the question is can we capitalize on it can we continue those Franno and Mills schools the MVP and Racers and build on it beyond the life or involvement of these two men, that is the real task, can the JAAA create a superstructure that truly facilitates the emergence of these firms and create an environment of keeping intense competitiveness in a more structured environment, where both coaches and their charges recognise the authority of the JAAA and the JAAA ensures that all camp are taken care of weill ahead of time and issues are resolved in private long before any major competition, that is the "real harsh facts" can we step up to the next level, we know what we can do with our eyes shut 2-4 medals, no gold, we can see now what we can do with 3 of four pistons pumping and some great talent and coaching, now we need the last piston in place, that is the challenge.

    Comment


    • #17
      what do you expect in a left wing philosophical country?

      Comparing two entities is seen as unhealthy! Karl Marx would be proud!
      Karl commenting on Maschaeroni's sending off, "Getting sent off like that is anti-TEAM!
      Terrible decision by the player!":busshead::Laugh&roll::Laugh&roll::eek::La ugh&roll:

      Comment


      • #18
        Do you have fate in the current JAAA board?
        Karl commenting on Maschaeroni's sending off, "Getting sent off like that is anti-TEAM!
        Terrible decision by the player!":busshead::Laugh&roll::Laugh&roll::eek::La ugh&roll:

        Comment


        • #19
          Y'know, when yuh tink bout it, before there was an MVP, there was CAST and Dennis Johnson. DJ was doing a great job at that institution, prolonging the athletic careers of many schoolboy stars. And he was not working with the best, as most of those had gone off to die in an NCAA factory. Indeed, I bet Franno took his inspiration from the very talented, but somewhat disagreeable, DJ.


          BLACK LIVES MATTER

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Historian View Post
            Glen Mills is damn fortunate as a coach!

            Stephen “Franno” Francis does not work with proven prodigies of the magnitude of a Bolt (as far back as the 2004 Carifta Games in Bermuda, where as a 17-year-old Bolt made his final Carifta appearance, he was shattering world records). Rather, Francis takes virtual “no-name” athletes and makes superstars of them! This is the basic difference between Mills and Francis!

            So, Mills’ medals in Berlin came from
            1. Usain Bolt (gold medal in the 100-meter dash in a new world record)
            2. Usain Bolt (gold medal in the 200-meter race in a new world record)

            Francis’ gold medals in Berlin came from:
            1. Shelly-Ann Fraser (100-meter dash and new national record)
            2. Melaine Walker (400-meter hurdles in a World Championships record and the second fastest 400-m hurdles time in history)
            3. Brigitte Foster-Hylton (100-meter hurdles)

            Francis’ silver medals in Berlin came from:
            1. Shericka Williams (400-meter race)

            There were other outstanding performances from Stephen Francis’ athletes in Berlin, including a fourth place finish for 400-meter hurdler Kaliese Spencer and an appearance in the finals from an athlete whom many had virtually given up on, Anneisha McClaughlin!

            Looking back at Bejing, three-quarters of the world record-setting 4x100-meter men’s relay team were Francis’ athletes (Carter, Frater and Powell), while both the gold and silver medalists in the women’s 100-meter race (Fraser and Simpson) were his athletes as well.

            Just my two cents. But it is the facts!
            Myth!

            Why?
            1. Bolt is Bolt!

            2. Most of Francis' stars were high school stars or (youth) world stars.

            NB: It is no small feat to be coached to and to be rated among the world's top 20 in an event!

            3. Mills has a record of producing Jamaica top sprinters from many years past. It is fact that some of his youth charges found themselves on Jamaica's senior T&F teams.

            4. How long has it been after the formation of 'Franno's stables' (think pre-MPV) has Mills put together a 'stable'? Should Mills' like time working at this be compared to Franno's like time?

            Finally - There is the matter of what they have accomplished with their best athletes -

            Many think Asafa is a more gifted 100M runner than is Bolt! Asafa they argue has the pure form and better 'wheels'.

            ...besides he is the fresher athlete...not prone to running seriously from his early teens as has Bolt and thus should be futher removed from boredom and burnout.

            There is also the argument on the matter of Asafa being never at mental peak...not fully prepared mentally by Franno for major meets....Franno's failure to get Asafa ready for best performances at his pet event at these meets!

            So far, Mills has had Bolt produce peek...best performances at the major meets where it matters most.

            ------------

            Francis has a wider range of coaching events.

            Mills makes no bones about his being a sprint coach. Mills goes so far as to leave no doubt that he is confident at coaching the 100M & 200M...

            and says that he thinks he can coach the 400M?

            Suggests Mills and Franno at this stage should be compared on results ...work done with athletes over 100M & 200M?
            Right?

            Conclusion: Both Franno and Mills are fortunate that their athletes have the talent and desire to make for, under their tutulage, results gained.
            Last edited by Karl; September 6, 2009, 04:26 PM.
            "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."

            Comment


            • #21
              So far, Mills has had Bolt produce peek...best performances at the major meets where it matters most.
              Bolt has been doing that long before Mills!


              BLACK LIVES MATTER

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Mosiah View Post
                Bolt has been doing that long before Mills!
                No!
                As Junior athlete, yes...as senior, no! At the senior level Bolt never lived up to his potential before teaming up with Mills.

                Remember the topic? Comparison of Mills and Franno with athletes at the senior level.

                If we had a look at work with athletes at the junior levels - I cannot remember Franno ever preparing any athletes there. Mills has had years of successes at that level.
                "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."

                Comment


                • #23
                  Karl, stop embarrassing yourself!

                  Kaliese Spencer, World Youth W400H Gold medallist.
                  Karl commenting on Maschaeroni's sending off, "Getting sent off like that is anti-TEAM!
                  Terrible decision by the player!":busshead::Laugh&roll::Laugh&roll::eek::La ugh&roll:

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Historian View Post
                    In one aspect, you make a lot of sense, Don1. Your statement, “We should be uplifting and encouraging them to cooperate and make each other better and our program stronger” is a very good one! You also correctly stated that “we already have enough division and dissension.”

                    These are excellent statements by you, and ones with which I am in 100 percent agreement ! In fact, I hope that every well-meaning Jamaican shares your sensible views.
                    thanks

                    Where your post is surprisingly irrelevant is in the section that states, “Rather than promoting unhealthy competition between our coaches….” Since, as far as I’m aware, neither Glen Mills nor Stephen Francis reads the Reggae Boyz Forum, in what way am I “promoting unhealthy competition between our coaches”? You are indirectly attributing to the “Other Sports” section of the Reggae Boyz Forum a much greater audience reach and a much greater influence that it actually warrants!
                    I don't know who reads this forum. I know that the track community is small and news travels.
                    I know that all opinions inciting unhealthy competition are...unhealthy. Especially so in the current environment.

                    Also, isn’t the JAAA, with its apparent practice of exclusion and side-taking, the entity that’s “promoting unhealthy competition”? To cite one example here, a decision could easily (and rightly, in my opinion) have been made to award BOTH Stephen Francis and Glen Mills with the prestigious Jamaican “Coach of the Year” award at the end of last year! While Mills had honed Bolt’s already amazing career (a career which had already attracted world attention from the early age of 15 under another coach) and thereby took him to world record, legendary status and two gold medals for Jamaica, it was Francis with his MVP group of men AND women that captured 2 gold medals (including an Olympic record), 2 silver medals, and made up almost 100 percent of the world record relay team (with his anchor man running one of the fastest anchor legs in history).
                    I agree... small minds rule Jamaican track..administrators and coaches.

                    Both coaches could (and should) have been given that prestigious Jamaican award by the Jamaican authorities!! Yet I, Historian, am being accused of “promoting unhealthy competition between our coaches”!! My friend, this is laughable at best!!!


                    The two are not mutually exclusive. Both the JAAA and Historian can be promoting unhealthy competition.

                    Yes!!... the JAAA's shenanigans are far more destructive...when compared with someone's private opinion.

                    Trust me, the JAAA and the Jamaica Ministry of Sports, with their continued myopic approach to the development of track and field in Jamaica and their amazing failure to build up on the track and field successes we’ve been having, particularly since the 2004 Olympic Games, are the entities to be castigated!!! Those useless organizations, and not Historian (who has no influence either in Jamaica or on this message board), are the entities that we should be focusing our lenses on unrelentingly!!
                    Agree... which is why I criticize those backward entities where I see it justified.... and give them respect where indicated. Fundamental reform of the JAAA is needed and I gave some thoughts on how that could be achieved...hysteria achieves only more stonewalling and posturing.

                    My gentle criticism of you should not be taken personally. I don't see why we should use the fat (LOL!) of the Great Glen Mills to fry the Great Steven Francis...or vice versa.

                    It's not constructive for JAAA... or Historian to do so.

                    Just my opinion.
                    Last edited by Don1; September 6, 2009, 11:19 AM.
                    TIVOLI: THE DESTRUCTION OF JAMAICA'S EVIL EMPIRE

                    Recognizing the victims of Jamaica's horrendous criminality and exposing the Dummies like Dippy supporting criminals by their deeds.. or their silence.

                    D1 - Xposing Dummies since 2007

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Sorry, but I don't believe Bolt just caught stage fright once he got up to the senior level. The youth battled thru injuries and still did fairly well.

                      And as for the comparison - one could argue that Mills has always worked with the best. It is said that even when he coached at the sprint factory called Camperdown, it wasn't like he was developing athletes. Rather, the school had a solid scholarship program, so to speak, so the best athletes were in his hands from day one! Franno's genius cannot be questioned in a similar manner!


                      BLACK LIVES MATTER

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Yuttie View Post
                        Karl, stop embarrassing yourself!

                        Kaliese Spencer, World Youth W400H Gold medallist.
                        Embarrassed because I never remembered that?

                        ...but let me move from your silly comment - and let us advance the comparisions - List Franno's accomplishments with junior athletes and list Mills' accomplishment at that same level?
                        "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by X View Post
                          How can a fact not be constructive? Mills has proven himself in the past , besides having the big man as a trophy who else does he have to say ,I am still the man in coaching today?

                          It should spur him on to develop a stable of stars like MVP, to challenge their dominance , competition is healthy and Jamaica wins.

                          The iaaf can give him coach of the year , the JAAA can make him Head coach for life , it still does not ignore the fact That MVP is the camp and Franno is the man, ask ATO Boldon from NBC and the jamaican black populace that isnt use to nothing.

                          BTW yes we can all get along and work together in a competitive enviroment provided we eliminate certain rules and situations which have obvious conflict of interest.
                          see my response to Historian
                          TIVOLI: THE DESTRUCTION OF JAMAICA'S EVIL EMPIRE

                          Recognizing the victims of Jamaica's horrendous criminality and exposing the Dummies like Dippy supporting criminals by their deeds.. or their silence.

                          D1 - Xposing Dummies since 2007

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            leave that for high school coaches, we're talking about professional racing here.
                            Karl commenting on Maschaeroni's sending off, "Getting sent off like that is anti-TEAM!
                            Terrible decision by the player!":busshead::Laugh&roll::Laugh&roll::eek::La ugh&roll:

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Stonigut View Post
                              The real "harsh fact" is how many athletes of somewhere between Usain Bolt and Asafa Powell has Jamaica thrown away in say just since the DQ era, mid 70's to now.

                              This is reinforcing Historian's "harsh facts" but also stands behind Mills as a phenomenal coach as it is one thing to have a prodigy but a whole nother thing to lead the prodigy to an incredible height of greatness, to facilitate that, to let the prodigy understand the gravity of what they are doing, keep them focused and to produce at the right time, just doing that for one athlete at the level that we have seen from Bolt is an incredible feat, we have bnever seen it before and Mills must have known all along and kept it under cover as he can see the times he was running in practice and pushed him even harder which we now know that Mills is not a rest on your laurels kind of coach.

                              We know how critical we all were of some of Bolt's coaches before Mills and how it seemed at one point that we were not going to get anything from Bolt (I know this is not my imagination, I remember a lot of negativity after Athens).

                              The truth is we have seen this time and time again in terms of talent, what happen to even one of the great Calabar 4*100 team that class 1 team that broke the 41 second barrier, man like Inches Palmer who was at least 6'1" or so who ran 10.5 in first year class one, again man like Evrod Samuels who ran 20.6 as a schoolboy, the Calabar 4*100 class two team with the phenomenal talent of Laing and that team that tore up the class two record if I remember rightly, and a ton more from Camperdown to St Jago to KC. Funnily I can remember any outstanding JC athletes, except one really great one at the turn of the 20th century. Just joking!!

                              What happened at all those guy and girls, not to forget the girls, we lost an entire generation harvest.

                              Again in keeping with either Don1 or Gamma's point this should not be a a "mano a mano" competition between Franno and Mills, however it is good to have a level of competitiveness between the camps.

                              Michael Porter a Harvard Business school don wrote a book on competitive advantage in firms and another about countries developing a competitive advantage in industries like say Italy in the the Textiles business or Germany in the car industry, but it all starts at the firm level where competition between rivals fosters innovation, foster deeper investment in talent, resources, processes etc, we are seeing one of those unusual times, where we may if it develops right have a Franno and Mills schools of athletics in the future long beyond the life of these guys, this is where the competition needs to be that will be real legacy. Also another truth that Historian did not recognise in his harsh facts is the impact of GC Foster and UTech in developing local athletics. I remember as far back as 1986 when Cast with DJ was producing guys like Rohan Wade, ah think him did name, him was running 10.3 or so in them days after high scool days long gone, DJ was laying down the infrastructure from dem days. Please do not underestimate that.

                              I share Historian's philosophy somewhat but where he sees pessimism I see optimism, we are at one hell of a tipping point, the pieces in the Jakan track and field arsenal have been building for 100 years piece by piece starting with schoolboy championships to the point now where everybody have champs, the Jamaican people are fully engaged even before all this "gold torrent", the talent ID system is fully engaged, the infra is partially laid down now between high school and developing pro athletes, now what we need is to build on what has been created by Mills and Franno they have amassed something of worth and have created for Jamaica an unbelievable competitive advantage in the sprints for the moment, the question is can we capitalize on it can we continue those Franno and Mills schools the MVP and Racers and build on it beyond the life or involvement of these two men, that is the real task, can the JAAA create a superstructure that truly facilitates the emergence of these firms and create an environment of keeping intense competitiveness in a more structured environment, where both coaches and their charges recognise the authority of the JAAA and the JAAA ensures that all camp are taken care of weill ahead of time and issues are resolved in private long before any major competition, that is the "real harsh facts" can we step up to the next level, we know what we can do with our eyes shut 2-4 medals, no gold, we can see now what we can do with 3 of four pistons pumping and some great talent and coaching, now we need the last piston in place, that is the challenge.

                              Great!!!.................... Excep fi di likkle JC sidebar..nuh draw mi tong yuh nuh!!
                              TIVOLI: THE DESTRUCTION OF JAMAICA'S EVIL EMPIRE

                              Recognizing the victims of Jamaica's horrendous criminality and exposing the Dummies like Dippy supporting criminals by their deeds.. or their silence.

                              D1 - Xposing Dummies since 2007

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                It is interesting that we sometimes forget that from the 40s through to the present we have always had athletes who performed on the world's stage in a manner that kept fired our imagination?

                                1940s - Wint, McKenley and the ladies
                                1950s - ditto
                                1960s - DJ and his incredible period in 1962 or was it 1963? ...or some other year?
                                We had Keith Gardner, George Kerr (particularly Kerr) & a high jumper Ernie .....
                                1970 - Quarrie
                                1980 & 1990 - Ottey and others.
                                1990 - So many men and tons of our women
                                ...and now it seems the floodgates are open.
                                "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X