The game has changed!

[Willi]

I stated a fact.

Is that a diss to you?

[Mosiah]

just a question. sheez!

[Willi]

Just an answer.

Sheesh!

[Historian]

Thank You, Jangle

I have to come to Historian's defense on this one. Even though sometimes he is like a Dark Shadow (unuh memba dat TV show back in the days), in this case i think he was responding to Stoni's post. Stoni is putting forth some serious points about Jamaica continuing and building on this recent dominance over the USA in the sprints. Historian is merely outlining the stark realities about our limitations, which, I think he is ABSOLUTELY correct. However, Karl, in one of his few lucid moments, made the suggestion about expanding and glamourizing some of these non-traditional events to our young schoolers as an answer. Unuh ease up on Histy. Every post on the topic so far has valid points.

Thank you very much, Jangle! I appreciate your comments, and you’re absolutely, 100 percent correct! Also, I agree with your comment on the usefulness of Karl’s response .

I’ve already said my piece, but I must confess to being surprised that most posters failed to realize that I linked my response to Stonigut’s for a reason! Anyway, next year is when the much-talked-about Jamaica versus the USA set of meets will take place, and then we will see just how valid or invalid my comments are.

What gives me hope is that outstanding people like Stephen Francis, Glen Mills and others most likely realize that we are just starting, and that there is still much work to be done in the building of our track and field program.

Thanks once again for your comments, Jangle.

[Stonigut]

Thanks boss, the truth is we don't even have to stretch too far from where we put wi hat. Here is the formula.

100 men and women
200 men and women

400 men and women must improve there, the people are there, we just need to find them and work them.

110 hurdles M & W

400 hurdles M&W

Longjump M&W

TJ M&W

800 M&W long shot, but I have to think we have the talent out there for this the longest sprint. Evidence Jakan pool English athlete won Olympic gold in this event. Seymour Newman was world competitive in this event.

Decathalon/Hep M&W I believe we must have some talent here, evidence Ennis andother Jamaican pool athlete who won a gold medal in the Olympics relatively recently. Calabar athlete who came 2nd in 2005 or 2007.

4*100 M&W

4*400 M&W

We just need to focus in on these events, we don't need to spread it any wider than this, our strengths are speed and explosiveness and apparently an ability to soak in information and to improve upon past performance, (I cannot say how much Melaine and Shelly Ann have impressed me with their performance under fire), much to the consternation of all of us who all thought or were told "sey wi head tuffa than coconut".

Anything close to 10 gold can win, especially if Russia can step it up or anybody else can steal a few gold here and there in events the US seem to have improved upon in this champs, mens long jump, womens long jump. Lagat almost thief the 5000m.

The bottom line on this is we will never win the points competition, the US is too deep for that, but we do have a chance to win the glamorous "GOLD" competition the true standard, the world standard, the Bretton Woods Standard oops sorry dat did fail nuh! Well you know what I mean, we can win the gold competition with this set of athletes and this set of coaches and if we all can get the administration and the coaches on the same page it can happen!

[Stonigut]

Despite our successes, at this point in time Jamaica has no 400-meter male that stands even a remote chance of winning as much as a bronze medal in any global or even regional meet! Regionally, Trinidad’s Renny Quow and the Bahamas’ Christopher Brown and Ramon Miller (to name only three quarter milers) will whip any of our current 400-meter guys!

Not true at all, we have two guys capable of sub 45, Mullings and Chambers they just need some work, throw in Isa and Bolt and we have the winning combi. This team can run 2:57 with proper training, let Bolt forget about the long jump and focus on anchoring the 4*4 mens.


2. Jamaica cannot field an outstanding 4x400-meter men’s team! When we last reached a global final (in Beijing), we placed dead last. In 2009 it’s gotten worse as we cannot even qualify for the final.

3. We need younger 100-meter hurdlers. Both Brigitte Foster-Hylton and Delloreen Ennis-London, excellent hurdlers that they are, are approaching their mid-thirties.

This will come, they are already out there.Nickeisha Wilson run 12.86 she is only 23

4. We need younger 110-meter hurdlers. Maurice Wignall, for example, is an “old man” has far as the sport is concerned (the male version of a Chandra Sturrup).

Dwight Thomas 13.16, say no more the other youth man is also quite young ( cyan remember his name)

5. Although Issa Phillips is around mid-twenties and therefore still a young man, we need an additional 400-meter male hurdler or two to replacing the aging Danny McFarlane.

Phillips is great, Buckley & Robertson run low 49.2's both in low 20's will both be running mid 48's next year.

6. The Jamaica men’s 4x100-meter relay team has not run against the USA men since 2007 in Osaka. That is two years ago (I will not include the recent Zurich relay for a number of reasons)!

You mean the US has not run against Jamaica, the fear factor is causing them to drop the stick and even when they do run our guy jogs along to make his brethrin not look too bad!!!

7. The Jamaica women’s 4x100-meter relay team has not run against the USA women since 2007 in Osaka.
Again the US cannot even do the basics, this is not even a point, if you can't even mek it to the dance to try ah ting, what's the point of even mentioning a no show, "theyz gots the jitters"

8. Jamaica has no outstanding long jumper, male or female, at this point in time! (Whatever happened to young Chelsea Hammond?)
Jovanee Jarrett is this close to breaking through she just missed making the finals in Berlin, she was the best non-finalist. She also showed phenomenal heart to pull fourth at Beijing, nuff potential to explode in 2011.

9. While discovering male 400-meter runners seems to be an impossible task, is it also impossible for Jamaica to discover female and male high jumpers?

Forget this one HJ is no joke, this is one tough technical skill, I wouldn't even waste any time with this unless an outstanding talent comes along.

The bottom line, whether we like it or not, is that in concentrating on the short sprints, we have severely limited ourselves! Our real strengths, therefore, are currently in the 100-meter and 200-meter races (both men and women), in the 400-meter race for women, in the 400-meter hurdles for women, and in both 4x100-meter races (men and women).

The real bottom line is this, we have the goods right now to win the gold competition, however we need help from Russia, Cuba, Germany and ever other place out there, Jmaiac can win and should have wonif VCB took gold and give us a chance at the womens 4*400, even though in my heart of hearts I know they are just and could not have challenged the US from a psychological standpoint their goal was silver and a bronze cloud landing if that first goal was missed.

The real challenge is to get everyone on the same page, Franno, Mills, VCB, Quarrie, Aris and JAAA, who will lead the way, who is big enough to step up and guide the arrogant sheep!! That is the billion $ question as there is no doubt that done right we can exploit this golden period here and now, we have a ten year window.

[Karl]

Good chat, sah!

btw - Think somewhere or the other I also mentioned those events...or just about thode same events?

[Stonigut]

Well it aint no rocket science, we know what we good at, no sense trying to do something that you know don't get right into the sweet of the meat. The question again is can our organization bring the best conditions for success, make sure man like Mullings have what him need long before the national champs, mek sure man like Franno is happy and chirping sweet songs pure and true, they have to set the table, setting the table is not a quick fix it is realtionship building it is base building, make sure the foundatuion is secure so the boat cannot be rocked so easily, thank god that Bolt was first up and he set the tone eraly by saying none of it was affecting the team, even though it wasn't fully truehe set the stiff upper lip standard, focusing on the real prize and all else was just distraction.

[Historian]

I Will Say More Tomorrow

The real bottom line is this, we have the goods right now to win the gold competition, however we need help from Russia, Cuba, Germany and ever other place out there, Jmaiac can win and should have wonif VCB took gold and give us a chance at the womens 4*400, even though in my heart of hearts I know they are just and could not have challenged the US from a psychological standpoint their goal was silver and a bronze cloud landing if that first goal was missed.

The real challenge is to get everyone on the same page, Franno, Mills, VCB, Quarrie, Aris and JAAA, who will lead the way, who is big enough to step up and guide the arrogant sheep!! That is the billion $ question as there is no doubt that done right we can exploit this golden period here and now, we have a ten year window.

Stoni:

I suspect that you forgot the opening statement that you posted. Well, let me refresh you:

After the Olympics it was; Jamaica beat the US in the sprints, what will happen the next time they meet, will Jamaica roll over and the US regain it's prominence in the sprints or can Jamaica duplicate Beijing.

By the way, the next time Jamaica and the USA meets will be in less than a year from now.

I’m not able to respond fully now, but hopefully I’ll be able to post a more detailed response tomorrow. But in the meantime think of this: Based purely on the level of Jamaica’s incredible achievements over the past four years, our track and field governing body, the JAAA, is so irrelevant in the process, in fact so reactionary, that it’s like an albatross around our country’s neck. I suggest that, as far as greater performance by Jamaica is concerned, you forget about the JAAA in its current form and with its current executives. I mean it!!!

But more on this tomorrow morning. In the meantime, many of us need to be thankful of the existence of a genius coach who happened to form a club, MVP, several years ago! Whether we want to admit it or not, this single club, MVP, could challenge Jamaica and get very interesting results!

Several people posted facts in this thread that I already know! Track and field is something that I follow closely at every level, and the posted reply I made to you yesterday was not concerned with future “maybe’s” or unsupported opinion. In addition, my comments were aimed specifically at now, as in the year 2009 (with Beijing and Berlin as unstated references).

Of course I can post an essay on future prospects for Jamaica, as I’m fully aware of most of them! Do you think that I’m not aware of long jumper Jovanee Jarrett? To cite one other example, do you think I’m unaware of Marino Buckley and Josef Robertson and what they’re doing now?! The fact is, however, that I have absolutely no idea whether or not they will be running “mid-48’s next year”! We can guess that they will be, but as you might have noticed, I never ever make posts on probabilities and possibilities except for fun predictions at Olympic Games and IAAF World Championships time (hence my name, “Historian”).

Jamaica’s track and field history is replete with well-meaning predictions that came to naught!

To state that “the fear factor is causing (the USA) to drop the stick is the type of subjective discussion that I usually avoid for the simple reason that it’s subjectivity at its highest level. The simple fact that I was pointing out is that Jamaica has not raced against the USA’s men or women’s sprint relay team since 2007, so measuring the capabilities of one against the other is impossible!! Why you chose to comment on this indisputable fact is beyond me!

But like I said, my next post, “The Harsh Facts: Part II” will appear tomorrow morning around this time.

[Jangle]

Ohhhh! Now I understand your point. You have something there about winning the "Gold" competition which is very achievable.

[Yuttie]

so tell me. how did you come to those conclusions?

[Stonigut]

Come on now Historian, there are no harsh facts there at all, there is only what you have, what yuh train for, what your goal is and going out and doing it, the listing of the harsh facts is more a listing of what is possible, like in the 400 mens or 400 hurdles men, we have the guys, two 400 guys that have run under 45, two young hurdlers that have run 49.2 that is the fact, the next step is the goal, what is the goal for these guys, for the hurdlers is getting into the mid 48's and for the flat guys getting back under 45 and then next step is to get to mid 44's, that is simple, that is not even a stretch. The harsh facts is can we get prepared to meet the challenge, that is the issue.

It is an organization issue.

[Baddaz]

[quote=Peter R;185687if sprints is our forte let's not dilute the talent pool because we want to emulate the bigger nations and have a man/woman in every single event at the world class level.[/quote]

well said peter r... i especially appreciated the above quote...

gamma rightfully said, we cannot be all things to all people... that is also exactly right... fact is, we are over achieving in track & field... we have had athletes achieving world class standards in many disciplines... we are a small nation... it is somewhat unrealistic to expect a nation of our size to consistently place athletes in the varied disciplines all the time...

non traditional events with representation...

decathlon... maurice smith, claxton bernard...
high jump... germaine mason (now england)
men's long jump... beckford
women triple jump... tricia smith...
women 800m.. kenia sinclair...
men's shot put... dorian scott...

we have a bunch of men's long jumpers coming up...

the future looks bright for us... we will have quarter milers and 400m hurdlers by the next olympics... bolt ascendance in the sprints will redefine who is a 100/200m sprinter and force many of our 'sprinters' to the quarter mile...

finally, i think it is unrealistic to expect jamaica to end t&f championships ahead of the usa... the fact that we have come that close to warrant the usa's attention is satisfaction enough for me... indeed, jamaica has exceeded expectations - on all levels...

[Mosiah]

bolt ascendance in the sprints will redefine who is a 100/200m sprinter and force many of our 'sprinters' to the quarter mile...

True, but this will happen all over the world, including the USA, where they already have great 400m runners.

[Willi]

Hurdlers running 49.2???

Look here for PBs from 2008:
48.50Markino Buckley JAM16/04/19863sf2Beijing (National Stadium)16/08/2008

48.93Adrian Findlay JAM01/10/19822Lawrence, KS19/04/2008
(this guy got himself into a scandal though...)

From 2009:

48.05Isa Phillips JAM22/04/19841Kingston (NS), JAM27/06/2009

49.22Josef Robertson JAM14/05/19873Kingston (NS), JAM27/06/2009