Is Jamaica An Overrated Sports Giant?

[Assasin]

What else Bahamas produce?

We have world class cricketers, footballers playing in the world top leagues and scoring goals and leading their respective teams, We have Boxers who have dominated their class and have had mutlitpy champions, and if you count all of them with Jamaican hertige that wear a flag it is a LOT. I just posted about our Jockeys and trainers riding and in the top 10 of some of the best US track and building a reputation for themselves. We have competed at competitive level at Bobsleigh, dogsleigh, now Sking and not to mention surfing. Our netball team is ranked amongst the top 5 in the word. We dominate caribbean car racing.

Barbados and Trinidad may beat we at swiming, volley ball etc. but they are not world class. Even when we didn't have medals we always had some representing our country in the finals of the olympics sprint since Don Q. and maybe before.

[Baddaz]

historian... let me respond to this post directly...

first off, it all depends on what criteria you used to classify 'sports giant'... many variables here, so come correct...

secondly, are we talking about world sports power or regional sports power...

i think its unfortunate and regrettable that you or anyone would expect more of jamaica's accomplishment in SPORTS, while not acknowledging our successes...

not even the great usa wins every sporting event... it is impossible... to ask that of jamaica, is ridiculous... we will win some and lose many...

some countries will be more dominant than others in some sports discipline... countries like cuba and the former communist / socialist countries will / should have greater representation in more sports because of the way the state channels the young in 'sports camps / institutes' to satisfy their 'strategic political agenda'... no such thing exists in jamaica... its all about the free will of participants...

also, some will be dominant in certain disciplines because of their environment, culture, social structure and a lack of competing disciplines...

easy eg... in the usa, basketball only requires a ball... hockey a whole lot of equipment that cost money... badminton, tennis, golf requires facilities and specialized coaching that requires resources, financially and otherwise...

the bahamas might be dominant in basketball and volleyball because of their proximity to the usa, human resources (coaches) and finance... likewise puerto rico and usvi...

jamaica play cricket and would dominate all of them in cricket and they would dominate us in baseball...

for jamaica to even be competitive with those countries in sports that are not in our tradition is imho, outstanding and deserves commendation...

surely, jamaica cannot win everything but our participation in SPORTS traditional or otherwise is remarkable...

from a regional standpoint, yes we are a sports giant... we may not win everything, however we are competitive participants in whatever discipline in which we are entered...

of all the 'minnows' that includes jamaica, how many can boast of the record that jamaica has on the world stage in SPORTS...

like i said define what you mean by sports giant and then we can continue... in the interim do a comparative analysis of the sports accomplisment of all the sports countries, however broadly you want to ascribe and then come back to me with an argument...

jamaica large and yuh cant diminish dat...

[Islandman]

Them produce a few NBA basketballers over the years but overall they cannot match us in sports generally.

I think Cuba is the only island that can compare on a per capita basis in terms of overall sports.

[Karl]

The truth is Karl...IMHO talent is over-rated; we're NOT unique in that perspective...talent abounds EVERYWHERE; we all would like to think we're uniquely gifted but proper programmes are what really works, even for those without "talent".

Agreed!

...as I said about our football - Excellent teachers needed!

[Assasin]

yeah, the ony down side is that Cuba don't get to compete in all the sports in a professional environment because of the politics.

[Baddaz]

i just found this... dont know if it accounts for beijing... there is a surprise... st kitts & nevis ahead of all caribbean islands... does that make them a t&f giant...


Rank Countries Amount # 1 Finland:566.724 per 10 million people
# 2 Sweden:520.995 per 10 million people
# 3 Hungary:442.69 per 10 million people
# 4 Denmark:296.392 per 10 million people
# 5 Norway:291.748 per 10 million people
# 6 Bulgaria:261.745 per 10 million people
# 7 Saint Kitts and Nevis:256.687 per 10 million people
# 8 Switzerland:244.358 per 10 million people
# 9 Bahamas, The:198.814 per 10 million people
# 10 Estonia:195.049 per 10 million people
# 11 New Zealand:183.395 per 10 million people
# 12 Australia:174.216 per 10 million people
# 13 Bermuda:152.987 per 10 million people
# 14 Jamaica:135.234 per 10 million people
# 15 Belgium:135.083 per 10 million people
# 16 Netherlands:129.823 per 10 million people
# 17 Cuba:120.737 per 10 million people
# 18 Romania:118.674 per 10 million people
# 19 Greece:118.11 per 10 million people
# 20 United Kingdom:105.557 per 10 million people
# 21 Austria:105.07 per 10 million people
# 22 Trinidad and Tobago:102.326 per 10 million people
# 23 Iceland:101.1 per 10 million people
# 24 France:98.589 per 10 million people
# 25 Virgin Islands:91.99 per 10 million people
# 26 Tonga:88.951 per 10 million people
# 27 Italy:82.44 per 10 million people
# 28 United States:71.551 per 10 million people
# 29 Canada:70.111 per 10 million people
# 30 Luxembourg:64.024 per 10 million people
# 31 Poland:62.503 per 10 million people
# 32 Germany:52.771 per 10 million people
# 33 Mongolia:50.161 per 10 million people
# 34 Ireland:49.801 per 10 million people
# 35 Suriname:45.647 per 10 million people
# 36 Netherlands Antilles:45.463 per 10 million people
# 37 Latvia:43.668 per 10 million people
# 38 Barbados:35.859 per 10 million people
# 39 Korea, South:31.661 per 10 million people
# 40 Slovenia:29.836 per 10 million people
# 41 Uruguay:29.274 per 10 million people
# 42 Lithuania:25.021 per 10 million people
# 43 Japan:23.231 per 10 million people
# 44 Qatar:23.174 per 10 million people
# 45 Djibouti:20.977 per 10 million people
# 46 Namibia:19.695 per 10 million people
# 47 Spain:18.592 per 10 million people
# 48 Czech Republic:18.553 per 10 million people
# 49 Georgia:17.105 per 10 million people
# 50 Belarus:16.505 per 10 million people
# 51 Portugal:16.089 per 10 million people
# 52 Kenya:15.962 per 10 million people
# 53 Croatia:15.569 per 10 million people
# 54 Puerto Rico:15.341 per 10 million people
# 55 Slovakia:14.73 per 10 million people
# 56 South Africa:14.207 per 10 million people
# 57 Argentina:13.658 per 10 million people
# 58 Korea, North:13.094 per 10 million people
# 59 Guyana:13.067 per 10 million people
# 60 Russia:10.877 per 10 million people
# 61 Lebanon:10.455 per 10 million people
# 62 Armenia:10.057 per 10 million people
# 63 Costa Rica:9.96 per 10 million people
# 64 Turkey:9.187 per 10 million people
# 65 Moldova:8.979 per 10 million people
# 66 Israel:6.372 per 10 million people
# 67 Panama:6.369 per 10 million people
# 68 Tunisia:5.955 per 10 million people
# 69 Iran:5.881 per 10 million people
# 70 Chile:5.632 per 10 million people
# 71 Azerbaijan:5.056 per 10 million people
# 72 Ukraine:4.894 per 10 million people
# 73 Macedonia, Republic of:4.89 per 10 million people
# 74 Morocco:4.889 per 10 million people
# 75 Kazakhstan:4.61 per 10 million people
# 76 Mexico:4.425 per 10 million people
# 77 Taiwan:4.368 per 10 million people
# 78 Kuwait:4.281 per 10 million people
# 79 Algeria:3.689 per 10 million people
# 80 Brazil:3.546 per 10 million people
# 81 Ethiopia:3.285 per 10 million people
# 82 Venezuela:3.153 per 10 million people
# 83 Haiti:2.462 per 10 million people
# 84 Singapore:2.259 per 10 million people
# 85 Uzbekistan:2.235 per 10 million people
# 86 Uganda:2.2 per 10 million people
# 87 Egypt:2.064 per 10 million people
# 88 Kyrgyzstan:1.943 per 10 million people
# 89 Ghana:1.823 per 10 million people
# 90 Zambia:1.776 per 10 million people
# 91 Cameroon:1.766 per 10 million people
# 92 China:1.707 per 10 million people
# 93 Colombia:1.63 per 10 million people
# 94 Hong Kong:1.449 per 10 million people
# 95 Peru:1.432 per 10 million people
# 96 Thailand:1.402 per 10 million people
# 97 Nigeria:1.32 per 10 million people
# 98 Malaysia:1.252 per 10 million people
# 99 Dominican Republic:1.105 per 10 million people
# 100 Syria:1.084 per 10 million people
# 101 Mozambique:1.031 per 10 million people
# 102 Philippines:1.024 per 10 million people
# 103 Senegal:0.854 per 10 million people
= 104 Niger:0.822 per 10 million people
= 104 Zimbabwe:0.822 per 10 million people
# 106 Saudi Arabia:0.757 per 10 million people
# 107 Ecuador:0.748 per 10 million people
# 108 Burkina Faso:0.741 per 10 million people
# 109 Indonesia:0.661 per 10 million people
# 110 Pakistan:0.616 per 10 million people
# 111 Côte d'Ivoire:0.578 per 10 million people
# 112 Tanzania:0.544 per 10 million people
# 113 Sri Lanka:0.498 per 10 million people
# 114 Iraq:0.384 per 10 million people
# 115 India:0.148 per 10 million people
# 116 Vietnam:0.12 per 10 million people
Weighted average:56.0 per 10 million people


http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/sp...ime-per-capita

[Gamma]

this is the surprise i was talking about...look whey di US deh? and behind JA at that...are they considered a T&F giant?

[Mosiah]

Aha! Argument dun!

[Islandman]

Is that a T&F list though, I think it is an overall Olympic medal list.

I would expect us to be in the top 5 on a T&F list.

[Mosiah]

That is for overall Oly medals.

[Historian]

In Conclusion....

i will also add that rather than focussing on the negatives, it would be better to raise the positives of our accomplishments considering that we are ahead of MOST larger countries in terms of population and resources in athletics and SPORT...

This thread was started in response to a situation that I have clearly grown tired of, that is, Jamaica’s underperformance in regional sporting ventures outside of netball and track and field. (Even in soccer, we bite our nails in anxiety as we await the outcome of our latest regional outing, a far different situation from a genuine soccer giant like, for example, Mexico who we expect to win the typical CONCACAF challenge.)

Of course, I could have focused on the positives, and I have done so many times over the years, in particular on the track and field forum next door. This time, however, I started this particular thread in some anger after seeing what seems to have become a commonplace occurrence whenever Jamaica takes part in regional boxing, swimming, tennis, golf, and other sporting events outside of track and netball (aside from our occasional cricket victory against minnows, the CARICOM men and women basketball results of about three years ago is the sole major exception!).

In response to my argument, several members of this forum posted information on individual Jamaicans who have achieved greatness in sports in the USA and elsewhere. My post #3 (using the Linear Display Mode), however, had suggested that I was not discussing individuals who were born abroad with Jamaican connections or who had migrated from Jamaica. Surely a country with the largest population in the English-speaking Caribbean (and with an estimated even larger population living permanently outside of Jamaica) will, logically, produce individually great sportsmen and women!

I was referring clearly to sporting events both regionally and internationally in which Jamaica took part, with representatives wearing the colors of the Jamaican flag! In this regard, Jamaica cannot be regarded as a “sporting giant”! A track and field giant? Most certainly! A netball giant? Most definitely! Elsewhere, sadly, we are left wanting….

But, since many of us find it difficult or impossible to practice genuine objectivity (which sometimes means that we have to remove ourselves completely from the picture and look on from the outside dispassionately), then clearly there is no point in continuing this discussion. With this in mind, this final post of mine will, hopefully, signal an end to this thread.

This is not a knee jerk reaction to a volleyball loss to a tiny island nation of a mere 300,000 people. Rather, it is a well-meant question based on years of watching our regional competition failure in boxing, in lawn tennis, in swimming, in volleyball, in basketball (although we have won the CARICOM basketball championships in recent times), and, albeit to a much, much lesser extent, in soccer.

In fact, as I’ve suggested in the past, netball, track and field and cricket are probably our only saving grace! For the country with the highest English-speaking population in the Caribbean (almost three million), we should be stamping our authority in sports!! But what, instead, do we have?


There are some here who won’t like this question of mine, but so be it.

Jamaica tumble in qualifiers
Published: Monday | May 25, 2009



Jamaica's captain Delford Morgan (left) hits one by his Bahamian Ian Pinder opponent while Jamaica's libero Ricardo Chong looks on during their World Volleyball Championship qualifying match at the National Indoor Sporting Centre on Saturday. The Bahamas won 3-1 (19-25, 25-18, 25-22, 25-22). In other results Saturday, Mexico beat Haiti 3-0 (25-16, 25-16, 25-20) and St Lucia beat Cayman Islands 3-0 (25-11, 25-15, 25-14). - Ricardo Makyn/Staff Photographer


KINGSTON, Jamaica (CMC):
Hosts Jamaica tumbled out of contention for the 2010 FIVB Men's World Championship on Saturday night, when The Bahamas rallied to beat them three sets to one at the National Indoor Sports Centre.

In a pivotal NORCECA Group D qualifying series match, the Bahamians outgunned Jamaica 19-25, 25-18, 25-22, 25-22 to secure a spot in the next round of regional qualifying with Mexico.

[Baddaz]

This thread was started in response to a situation that I have clearly grown tired of, that is, Jamaica’s underperformance in regional sporting ventures outside of netball and track and field.

Of course, I could have focused on the positives, and I have done so many times over the years, in particular on the track and field forum next door. This time, however, I started this particular thread in some anger

Surely a country with the largest population in the English-speaking Caribbean (and with an estimated even larger population living permanently outside of Jamaica) will, logically, produce individually great sportsmen and women!

surely? how do you explain countries with 15 times the population without great sportsmen an women... it is not a given based on that criteria... there is more to it...

But, since many of us find it difficult or impossible to practice genuine objectivity (which sometimes means that we have to remove ourselves completely from the picture and look on from the outside dispassionately), then clearly there is no point in continuing this discussion. With this in mind, this final post of mine will, hopefully, signal an end to this thread.

ok, hisotorian... i find it ironic that you could post that 'many of us find it difficult or impossible to practice genuine objectivity' when you've admitted that you made your original post in anger, which would suggest a lack of objectivity...

there is obviously some disagreement because your post is filled with variables... it is unreasonable to think that there would be concensus on the subject of your post...

historian, not because you think you are being objective, means that is indeed the case... also, not because others have not come around to your conclusion means they aren't being objective either... that is the purpose for debate... no need to be petulant, take your ball and leave the court because a call didn't go your way... play the game to a conclusion or others just may not want to play another game with you...

[Historian]

Well, Let's See

ok, hisotorian... i find it ironic that you could post that 'many of us find it difficult or impossible to practice genuine objectivity' when you've admitted that you made your original post in anger, which would suggest a lack of objectivity...

I must admit that you got me trapped on this matter of objectivity. And you're correct, as any emotional post (for example, as angry one) will indeed display a marked lack of objectivity one way or the other.

there is obviously some disagreement because your post is filled with variables... it is unreasonable to think that there would be concensus on the subject of your post...

Fair enough not to expect universal agreement in this thread.

historian, not because you think you are being objective, means that is indeed the case... also, not because others have not come around to your conclusion means they aren't being objective either... that is the purpose for debate... no need to be petulant, take your ball and leave the court because a call didn't go your way... play the game to a conclusion or others just may not want to play another game with you...

Respect, Baddaz . I still feel strongly about this issue of Jamaica's underperformance most of the time (and outside of track and field and netball, this has actually been the case when Jamaica sends athletes (for example boxers and body builders) and teams to perform in regional competitions outside of our big two), but at the same time I understand and respect what you've said in the passage quoted above.

[Jangle]

Now this is what I like to see....constructive debating. Forumites take note. And the winner is...........................BADDAZ!!!!!

[Assasin]

one thing you are right on and that is we underperform in sports we could do a lot better in.

You say you haven't been to Ja in a while but it sad that you don't see many volley ball nets, many TT boards and other little things that could raise the level but we are still good for our size.

I notice you still didn't respond to our achievement in American horse racing, what you don't consider it a sport?